how did we at a place where diablo4 is more of an mmo that FF14?

[Atelier-Bagur]

I have to agree with the raids not feeling like raids. CLL is my best example of something that felt like a raid to me.

Savage and EX almost feels like super smash bros. You make a lobby and queue into the fight which at that point is pretty much a stage with music.

Seeing how WoW does its raids, I seriously wish they designed the alliance raids to be like CLL and Dalriada where a mass group of people work together to help progress into the instance while accomplishing side objectives, killing powerful mobs and reuniting together to fight bosses. Im not a big fan of the FFXIII dungeon design where we just walk in a long narrow hallway that looks visually pleasing but has no substance whatsoever.

[Stormpeaks]

How did we arrive at a forum with more trolls than the Blizzard ones?

Different opinion = trolling

Good input, you are one of the reasons why this game will never improve in any department, any sort of criticism is trolling and should be ignored, while the only thing that matters is this toxic positivity that this game and its community loves so much

[Kaurhz]

How did we arrive at a forum with more trolls than the Blizzard ones?

I don't think we do.

I just think our trolls are thirstier for attention than most others.

[Kyrj]

How did we arrive at a forum with more trolls than the Blizzard ones?

Well to be fair it's not Sunday so the trolls aren't out on the Blizz forums.

[R041]

yes 3 was not so good. 4 so far is fun and a really nice MMO

It's absolutely wild how I got both an oldschool MMO feel from D4, AND my the childhood feeling of D2. It's so weird, and I'm really looking forward to what they do with the living world of Diablo moving forward.
"Wait.. I can have both!?"

Being able to level sync like WoW in Diablo is actually such a fun concept to me. Fuck all the people crying they can't backtrack and insta-kill everything. I want wider coop opportunities now, not endgame. It's an MMO - We have friends and randos we wanna game with. Go play something offline if you're trying to solo shit. It also lets me use my full kit while synced.

There's just so much to do in the open world, I only wish they added MAYBE a party finder? Or LFG markers in your world. Where you can look at the map and see someone looking for people to run a dungeon with. So you request party and run over there.

I don't think many people realize that D4 is trying to compete on a different level in the Live Service market.

I also hated Diablo 3. :l

[sharknado]

And what good about Diablo 4 as a MMO?

There is a big talent tree system yet most of it will be irrelevant as early on there will be 1-2 broken builds and later on whatever flavour of the seasonal changes create. It's an illusion of choice. And as a whole it's "easy to get in, hard to master" and this game can't even handle equipping your job stone or cure I spam at max level

And I doubt people would be happy wih 6.4 where raid is overtuned, only few/one job per role is "valid" because of 50%+ better performance or very specific ability that trivalizes the encounter.

Yes, with all of that complexity and imbalance you can create a broken powerful character and have some fun, but that's very limited in longevity and not really good for a MMO.

[RitsukoSonoda]

Well the first thing they did was essentially rip out everything tied to the game genre tag "RPG" then make decisions from there to appease or attract people that don't play RPG's or MMO's

[R041]

Yes, with all of that complexity and imbalance you can create a broken powerful character and have some fun, but that's very limited in longevity and not really good for a MMO.

And look where that mentality gets us in XIV in 2023. Nowhere. We're dull and spiraling into nothingness with bloated buttons that all feel the same. Congratulations.

WoW has managed to make it work to some degree, and there are MMO-esque ARPGs that are attempting to do it as well. It can be done. Fun should be priority over strict balance.

XIV devs need to realize that you can't balance everything perfectly and you need to focus on fun combat engagement over everything else.

Also you have no idea what the balance is like in D4, or what it'll be like in end-game. It's just an assumption based on D3.
With other ARPGs managing to pull it off, and D4 looking promising, the gap of complex action combat and MMORPG are closing in.

D4's world and systems feel more like an MMORPG than most MMOs to date. There are so many quests, you don't have to do them in any specific order depending on the region. They're all voice acted. There are.. A LOT.

https://youtu.be/DglGWF4LBnc

[sharknado]

WoW has managed to make it work to some degree.

Yes, it's freaking fun to have a M+ season where 80% groups want a resto druid only because there was a MDI tournamend and most pro teams used some cheese OP strat with resto (and you can't change a class). Then it's fun to be a Mistweaver Monk to constantly manage your mana while most other healers will have it much easier while also contributing more DPS... or Disc priest which is pretty much build and tuned around mythic raid progression and tends to fail in random and less skilled groups. If you want to heal mythic prog on a high level you either a disc priest, hpala or depending on fight/tier some other healer that brings that special utility needed. Outside of that your class is discarded as inferior just because of how it's designed.

It can have it merits but then our daily reddit or forum questiosn "what to play?" instead of "what you want to play" sprouts would get very specific few jobs just because last raid tier or general design/balance. If you want to raid in WoW classic as DPS then it's 80% you are a warrior, 18% a rogues and 2% mage or lock. Other specs/builds are way way weaker (even though content is braindead and people parse and speedrun it as the only challenge).

FF14 needs new content but it should not be FOTM Blizzard ideas.

[R041]

It can have it merits but then our daily reddit or forum questiosn "what to play?" instead of "what you want to play" sprouts would get very specific few jobs just because last raid tier or general design/balance. If you want to raid in WoW classic as DPS then it's 80% you are a warrior, 18% a rogues and 2% mage or lock. Other specs/builds are way way weaker (even though content is braindead and people parse and speedrun it as the only challenge).

Nobody cares about WoW Classic. Come back to 2023.

You make it seem like XIV doesn't suffer from those same lockout issues for raid, while also boasting that every class is perfectly balanced.