The current state of the "MMORPG" FFXIV is unsustainable. Here's why

[magitekLuna]

Ever thought about the fact that the majority of gamers don't really give 2 craps about any of those labels? Casual or hardcore is only made up label that outside of a small section of mouthers to argue about, the rest just shrug and move on with their life. Let me reveal to you the magic word that's far more relevant than all of these "buzz" words you're throwing around: fun.

At the end of the day, whether a game can stand the test of time or not isn't because it cater to casual or hardcore, that's just crap some people throw around with their mental gymnastic to argue the point. The truth is much more simple, a game survive as long as it's fun for enough amount of people. If you're among those people, you luck out, you find your match. If not, well, too bad, but there are always other options on the market for you to try your luck again.

what even??

[magitekLuna]

I play because it doesn't take hours to days to weeks to get a level up further in the game with dead guilds and inactive friend lists. I'll just go play Last Chaos in 2006 if I want to relive that hell.

but its the same here just in a different way. all the end game gear TIME LOKED so it take weeks to get. most guilds (FC) are dead as hell and inactive friend lists getting bigger by the patch.

[KhudusQestir]

I'm well aware of those discord groups and I've already checked them out. My opinion on exploratory zones still stands. If content requires an outside sourced discord group to be playable then the content has failed.

I don't disagree with you and it's ironic you say that when Yoshi also explained how he doesn't want third-party tools to play the game. Yet also the whole point of a MMO is to socialize and communicate. Kinda something that we the players fail at accepting to do. So is it a game flaw or player flaw?

I think if SE is going to force us to play old content, they should force us to play huge content like that to keep any part of the game from dieing. Remind players it's a Massive Multi-Player game. Kinda like RW. Requires 60 or so players to play but nothing requires the use of it like FL in rouls so it is only dead until a certain hour when a certain discord group pings players for it. So every day RW is only truly available to the players for an hour or two.

You can argue about job design all you want but it comes down to the developers reacting to 2 different things: player demand for job balance so their favorite job is less likely to be excluded because elitists pay too much attention to theorycrafting and metas, and most players having reached a skill cap where they just can't handle more complexity in a job. The developers are rarely going to cater to the elitist niche no matter how vocal they get because every MMO in the past that has done that has inevitably failed.


The game has plenty of long term grinds. Hand of Creation. Divine Provider. The Indefatigable. Necromancer. The Accursed. Ultimate Thrillseeker. Of the Longest Hunt. Honest Gillionaire. Gambler. The Alpha Wolf. The Fortunate. The Luckiest of...
Are you trying to convince us you completed them all?

Try to blame things on casuals all you want but it sounds like the real problem is on your end.


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When a game no longer suits what you're looking for, it's up to you to find a game that does. It's not up to a specific game to change to meet your personal standards.

Players have been using your argument for years and yet the game is still here despite all the naysayers. You're not going to end up anymore correct than any of them were.

Wasn't your argument first saying that the game will only change do to the majority of player demand for balance and then start to tell Kyrj that it's best to leave the game than ask the devs for things? Your argument felt very contradicting. . .

Also, I believe as players who are monthly/yearly paying customers that they have every right to give their feelings on the game and make requests for changes. It helps the devs know what to change and how their players feel to help keep them playing. So telling them the idea to shut up and leave if you don't like it is rude and silly.

[Zaniel]

I can definitely see the difference between those who actually play and enjoy "Old School" mmos and those who just play FF14 and claim they play MMO's.

Yeah? Which games are those, tell us, which parts? I'm interested in what you think is "old school" (and good).

[KhudusQestir]

I've noticed a few think people are BLAMING casuals for the game becoming boring and I don't think that's the issue but I do feel players are overly requesting the devs to make the game TOO casual. Which is how we're in this mess. Now we have players saying "This isn't the same when I first joined and now finding it boring because it doesn't give me the fun it use to" and the point of this thread is to say "Stop making the game too easy and give us a reason to grind and have fun". It's great that players are enjoying the very casual aspect of the game but it ignores one side of the players and focuses too much on another. To me, EW feels like a STRONG repeat of SHB. It has a few new things but it's nothing that's really 'new'. Even Island Sanctuary is another rinse and repeat of gathering jobs but in a wider aspect. It's nothing truly game-changing. It strongly feel like we're being given the same dish over and over and the taste is becoming bland. So you can't blame players for feeling dull and wanting to request better changes to stay in the game they love.

[Ruru_Nayu]

Let's bring no CD reset and food buff falloff on death back. /s

[KhudusQestir]

I really like how you said this, because I totally feel that. A lot.

"Playing the game to not play the game."(1)

And yes, I get that this might be a "me problem."(2)

But, like recently, I had mentioned to a friend that I didn't really mind Island Sanctuary just so long as I was listening to an engaging podcast--essentially playing the game (Island Sanctuary) to not play it (listening to the podcast "Carmudgeon"--with Jason Cammisa and Derek Tam-hyphen-Scott).

There are other examples: macro crafting (i.e., tabbing out while the macro is running, and watch an interesting video about the B18 engine), Diadem gathering (granted, Diadem is not new, but once again, listening to podcasts while mindlessly flying from node to node), and sometimes even roulettes (mostly "Main Story" roulette--like I appreciate the MSQ rework, but it's still very much afk-city; CT/ST raids are podcast fodder; and a large portion of the Lv. 60-80 dungeons--the "trash packs" feel very much like "autopilot"--i.e., turn my brain off and push two or three buttons--in fact, the Lv 90 Troia dungeon just exasperates this, because it's literally "trash packs" upon "trash packs" until the second boss), etc...

That said, I do enjoy certain aspects of the game like some of the latter Alliance (24-man) raids (Ivalice--especially "Math boss" & Mustadio, NieR--love almost everything, the Twelve--mostly because it's new & fresh and my friends goad me to get my weekly coin), Critical Engagements and Delubrum Reginae (although, the Bozja-content, I felt, could have used some tweaks/improvements and, perhaps, been iterated & improved upon)--mostly because I'm actually playing the game--without podcasts or videos running in the background--I'm actually engaged.

I want to continue enjoying Final Fantasy XIV (3), but it's become increasingly difficult, because more and more I feel like it's become a daily/weekly chore/checklist to "play" a game that I'm trying to find new ways to actually not play. I just want more reasons to actually play FF14.

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(1) Yes, I realize it's sort of a "min-max" to an extreme, but that's sophistry
(2) I've unsubscribed/voted-with-my-wallet
(3) I'll totally be back for 6.4/7.0, because I still really like FF14 and the friends I've made along the way

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ This. . . . . THIS! ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
Almost forgot to repost this because of how accurate it is

[Striker44]

I've noticed a few think people are BLAMING casuals for the game becoming boring and I don't think that's the issue but I do feel players are overly requesting the devs to make the game TOO casual. Which is how we're in this mess. Now we have players saying "This isn't the same when I first joined and now finding it boring because it doesn't give me the fun it use to" and the point of this thread is to say "Stop making the game too easy and give us a reason to grind and have fun". It's great that players are enjoying the very casual aspect of the game but it ignores one side of the players and focuses too much on another. To me, EW feels like a STRONG repeat of SHB. It has a few new things but it's nothing that's really 'new'. Even Island Sanctuary is another rinse and repeat of gathering jobs but in a wider aspect. It's nothing truly game-changing. It strongly feel like we're being given the same dish over and over and the taste is becoming bland. So you can't blame players for feeling dull and wanting to request better changes to stay in the game they love.

Except by "mess" you mean "a ton of casual gamers absolutely enjoying the game and giving it the highest playerbase ever while the select few wannabe hardcore gamers throw temper tantrums that a game always designed for casual gamers is continuing that trend." There's no "mess" here - there's just playing a game intended for a different audience and complaining that it's not changing its very nature to suit you personally.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Except by "mess" you mean "a ton of casual gamers absolutely enjoying the game and giving it the highest playerbase ever while the select few wannabe hardcore gamers throw temper tantrums that a game always designed for casual gamers is continuing that trend." There's no "mess" here - there's just playing a game intended for a different audience and complaining that it's not changing its very nature to suit you personally.

to be fair, the actual good "hardcore" players ask for more harder content. But I didnt realize Savage, EXs and Ultimates arent enough for them? I sure hope Criterion becomes a big thing for them. Sucks we only have one of it and the rewards are lacking. They should add unique dungeon sets for them imo

[NekoMataMata]

Bozja and Eureka have a player-size issue, not a difficulty issue. Sort of two different things. There are discord groups you can join to fix that issue. You should search and give them a try.

That's still an issue. The game shouldn't rely on players to fix their issues like this, especially since there's always the possibility of players losing interest in running those discords.