The current state of the "MMORPG" FFXIV is unsustainable. Here's why

[Kyrj]

"The game is still here"

Said every SWTOR, Age of Conan, Wildstar, LOTRO, etc. player

[RobynDaBank]

"The game is still here"

Said every SWTOR, Age of Conan, Wildstar, LOTRO, etc. player

"The game is still here"... also said by the RuneScape, WoW, ESO, GW2, even Everquest players of the world. Your point?

[Kyrj]

"The game is still here"... also said by the RuneScape, WoW, ESO, GW2, even Everquest players of the world. Your point?

I can give you WoW and ESO and to a much much lesser extent GW2 but RuneScape is pushing what MAYBE 300k? And lol everquest. You really used everquest.

[R041]

I can give you WoW and ESO and to a much much lesser extent GW2 but RuneScape is pushing what MAYBE 300k? And lol everquest. You really used everquest.

Don't forget Ultima Online, there are literally dozens of us!

[Jojoya]

"The game is still here"

Said every SWTOR, Age of Conan, Wildstar, LOTRO, etc. player

SWTOR is still here 11 years later.

Age of Conan is still here 14 years later.

Wildstar did end updying - because it was not casual friendly among other reasons.

LotRO is still here almost 16 years later.

WoW is still here 18 years later. Know what's at the root of WoW's resurgence? They've recognized even raiders are growing older and will enjoy the casual side of the game.

The players who have the problem are those who have invested too much of their identity into playing a specific game that they convinced themselves was hardcore - just to later realize the game was never as hardcore as they imagined.

I can give you WoW and ESO and to a much much lesser extent GW2 but RuneScape is pushing what MAYBE 300k? And lol everquest. You really used everquest.

When WoW was released, Blizzard considered reaching 300k players to be sign of an amazing success. The old guard of the time said they avoided dreaming of 500k, thinking it unreachable.

Even today, MMOs do well enough with 100k players that they continue producing new content.

You've set your bar too high for what constitutes a viable game.

If your ego needs a game to have millions of players before you are willing to play it, wouldn't you better off with something like LoL or Fortnite?

So are WoW Players Casuals, or all Hardcore? Why do they get more engaging mechanics? Why are there so many more WoW players even today? Why are we conflating 'Casual' with someone that literally can't do basic video game mechanics?

Is there really such a thing as being hardcore or casual considering the gaming community in general has never agreed on definitions for those terms? Perhaps we're all just people who enjoy playing games, and that's all that needs to be said.

"Engaging mechanics" is subjective. You should try listening to comments of some of the top raiders who play both games.

WoW still has so many players due to franchise loyalty and sunk cost fallacy. Over half my friends when I was still playing WoW would tell me "I'm not playing this game because I like MMOs. I play this game because it's Warcraft".

[Kyrj]

They're here but they're on their deathbed, if I have to spell that out for you then there's no point in me wasting my time on you.

[MintnHoney]

Is there really such a thing as being hardcore or casual considering the gaming community in general has never agreed on definitions for those terms?

Yes, there are such things as being a hardcore gamer and a casual gamer.
The problem is that people tend to get offended for being identified as one over the other (usually casual), so personal views have changed the presented definitions over time.

[Jojoya]

They're here but they're on their deathbed, if I have to spell that out for you then there's no point in me wasting my time on you.

Everything dies eventually. Except maybe taxes.

Learn to enjoy what's available while it's available instead of dragging pessimistic luggage around with you.

Yes, there are such things as being a hardcore gamer and a casual gamer.
The problem is that people tend to get offended for being identified as one over the other (usually casual), so personal views have changed the presented definitions over time.

So then what are the definitions of each?

Personally I have no problems being identified as casual. Even when I was a core healer for a realm first guild in WoW (small realm, we weren't world first material outside of one player who retired from that rat race), I considered myself casual. I liked the raiding for the challenge to see how far I could push myself but I liked what was considered casual content even more. But my idea of casual probably wouldn't match what others see as casual.

What I dislike is the people who try to blame casuals for killing MMOs when that has never been the case.

[MintnHoney]

So then what are the definitions of each?

A hardcore gamer is a gamer who does put in a major investment of time and/or effort into their gaming, regardless of their aptitude or capability.
A casual gamer is a gamer who does not put in a major investment of time and/or effort into their gaming, regardless of their aptitude or capability.

Note that it isn't unheard of to be hardcore for one game, but casual for another; a person can be both for different games, just not for the same game, and to differing degrees.

Furthermore, "hardcore gamer" sometimes gets conflated to mean someone with more skill, but this is ultimately just due to their consistent investment of time and/or effort rather than being an accurate use of the label. A hardcore gamer can still be bad at a game that they play and remain hardcore. Likewise, "casual gamer" sometimes gets conflated to mean someone with less skill, but this is ultimately also just due to their investment of time and/or effort, and, therefore, can still be great at a game that they play while remaining casual.

What I dislike is the people who try to blame casuals for killing MMOs when that has never been the case.

I think, when people say that "casuals are killing MMOs," they usually mean that they're ruining the experience that hardcore players tend to look for in an MMO, which can actually be true if there's not enough in the MMO to keep the hardcore player's attention because of changes made to accommodate "needs" (perceived or otherwise) for casual players (particularly when and/or if those changes happen to remove or diminish the experience as originally presented to the hardcore player).

[R041]

WoW still has so many players due to franchise loyalty and sunk cost fallacy. Over half my friends when I was still playing WoW would tell me "I'm not playing this game because I like MMOs. I play this game because it's Warcraft".

XIV definitely suffers from Sunk Cost Fallacy all the same. We'll see how many people stay after the MSQ basically dumpstered itself. :l

"I play because I like Final Fantasy"

I definitely played because it was Final Fantasy. I don't think I would've stayed past Heavensward if it weren't for it. Definitely no longer enjoy combat outside of DDR boss mechanics.