AST as a support-focused healer

[ASkellington]

So a few things to note:

1. Without pruning of skills, you're adding 3 more abilities (3 separate ways to Draw so to speak), for cards on top of another 2 (one to reverse the effect and another to shuffle) plus 3 new abilities. Feels like a bit too much. (Assuming that I'm reading this right) Add in to the fact that they're akin to Mudras (likely in how they feel and not function since you aren't mixing to make a Raiton/Doton) is a big no at least for me. Mudras are my main issue with NIN as it stands.
   
2. I still don't see why you want to keep with the idea of GCD cards. The problem is not whether or not the cards are on GCD but the amount of targeting. This does reduce targeting, but so does removing the seals system as a whole as that's what started the huge amount of targeting in the first place (rushing out to get 3 seals for Divination and now for Astrodyne).
   
3. CI and Stargazer could have easily just been a repurposed Synastry one or the other.
   
4. CO being a Stop is an interesting idea. Funnily enough I was thinking it odd that AST doesn't have a Stop ability.

Nit pick but Earthly Star is not a DPS tool. Especially if you don't count Macrocosmos.

I also don't understand your fixation on the GCD cards. As an AST main, I don't want it and while I think the idea is cool from a conception stand point, the only positive I see here is that I get some of the OG cards back with a major negative of a Mudra-like system I didn't ask for and didn't want. I can't say if it would kill my interest in AST, but it likely would make me consider switching to a new job.

In short:

• I don't like the slowing of the APM on AST. The high APM is what drew me to the class along with diverse cards. I don't feel like I should have to have one or the other especially since PvP doesn't have this issue, and neither did SB AST.
  
• Having 3 draws for each seal and a way to reverse it mitigates RNG more, but I feel would add too much on the hot bar, even with the removal and/or revamp of some abilities. I think 2 would be slightly better (even with the added RNG) one for DPS and one for support. I'm going to assume you would prune abilities that AST doesn't use currently to make room and fix that issue.
  
• I feel like the new cards and lodestar mechanic seems to be an AST version of Lillies and Toxicon? Kinda? Its not really something I want to see on AST.

All that said, this does seem more clear on what you want or rather how you envision your idea of what AST could be.

That said I am confused on how Shuffle works. My guess is that you spend all cards (minor/major) and then must press a button to reset? If so that seems like an unnecessary stem like turning a card from Major to Minor back in the early patches of 5.0 which was a major pain point for AST.

I am also confused on what you mean by CI and this new ability Stargazer "granting an effect" do you mean a card effect? Or also something like Exalt/CI (current).

Ultimately, I would say this is an interesting design choice, but not one I would want to play depending on how the new cards feel.

[ty_taurus]

So a few things to note:

Before anything else, I can say I respect if you're not interested in the concept. I can't make you like it if you're turned off by it, but I do think it's also something that's difficult to actually gauge how it would feel without testing because it's so different to what we're familiar with. And that's the big flaw we're all faced with is we can't prototype anything, so there's a limit to how much we can accomplish on paper ideas shared on a forum. How fast or slow this would feel in practice is really hard to gauge without being able to put it in your hands. I also don't want AST to be slow, so it's a concept I would regularly adjust in a prototyping environment to get a good pacing feel. But regardless, I appreciate that you seem like you'd give it a chance if it were real anyway.

There are a few reasons as to why I fixate on the GCD cards. I want more distinct playstyles for each healer. What is the point of having multiple jobs if they're 4 different variations of the flavor for chocolate? We've talked a lot about DPS on healers, and while I do not agree or really sympathize with your standard Sylphie mindset of "I'll just stand here and look pretty" or the Ren mindset of "Just leave 1 healer in the trashcan", I can sympathize with healers who are not a fan of the heavy DPS mentality every healer adheres to, and I believe there should be a healer that tries to provide a fun and engaging playstyle that moves away from offense as much as possible while still feeling good in solo environments. There is a limit to how much you can do this given how this game is designed, but it is possible, but the only way this can ever work in FFXIV is to create a healer who still contributes DPS, but filters it through some form of support, but that support also has to be consistent support. Mitigation and healing are only as needed as a fight demands, which just isn't all that much in this game.

So in order to accomplish this, we either need to rework an existing healer to fulfill this playstyle, or add a new healer. But we just got SGE this past expansion, and it's identity is defined by being a highly aggressive healer--the opposite of this mindset. Realistically, assuming we even ever get another healer, it'll be another 7 years---maybe 5 years if we skip a double-DPS expansion--before we get a 5th. Meanwhile we have 4 healers that are starving for individuality, which is why I lean toward reworking each to have a more distinct playstyle. Of the healers we have, AST is undeniably the one that matches this class fantasy the closest.

All that said, it's also a justifiable route to say that no healer should be designed to cater to that type of playstyle, and anyone who doesn't like the heavy direct DPS frequency of the healers can deal with it or leave. At the end of the day, it's the designers who decide what playstyles they do and do not want in their game. No one is obligated to appeal to any given audience. Or we could leave the cards off the GCD and give them other forms of support GCD actions in addition to the cards, but that would be even more actions and would require a more intense culling of actions to properly fit.

To clarify on some of the details...

• On button pruning, combining Benefic and Esuna is an option, or upgrading Benefic to Benefic II. Since we're effectively performing a mini-divination every 30 seconds, there's an argument for removing Divination here, potentially moving further away from the 2 minute meta. Astrodyne could be removed. Synastry could if not be removed, maybe combined with Stargazer. Redraw and Undraw are unneeded for this build. In general, having 3 hotspots for all your cards is there to condense actions while also providing more control over the cards and replace Play and Crown Play, naturally. So I do think there's room here.
• The effect in those descriptions for Stargazer and CI is what I explained after that sentence. I just worded it oddly. Stargazer is simply, whoever has it (be they you or someone else) it's that person's spells and weaponskills that cause your lodestars to detonate. You're designating who is going to use your lodestar stacks essentially, or leave it on yourself during solo play. There's some optimization though to taking it off and making sure your lodestars are dumped while buffs are active though, so it's not quite like Dance Partner or Kardia which you generally want 100% uptime on. CI is just, whoever you put it on, their buffs are doubled in power when you use CO.
• Lodestars are in a sense like lilies because they are a DPS refund tool, but the application of them is quite different. Regardless, I really don't see a way around having some type of refund system to allow support GCD actions to not be completely ignored in favor of direct DPS. It would be very wonky to try and balance a healer that only provided % damage buffs and no or little personal DPS of their own (in group play anyway). This makes the support still emanate from you, but would generally be triggered by others.
• Shuffle exists for two reasons: 1. it gives structure to your gameplay. You can only do a triple offensive party buff once per 30 seconds, and 2. it also makes it so that you aren't just trying to stack 3 Balances or so by enforcing the one-of-each-card aspect.

And I've said it before but it's worth saying again that there are more ways this concept could work. Mine isn't the only way, it's just the best that I've come up with at the time having gone through several iterations prior. And I'm just 1 person, so I'm not bouncing ideas off anyone else. I'm sure there's an even better way to approach this out there.

[ASkellington]

There are a few reasons as to why I fixate on the GCD cards. I want more distinct playstyles for each healer. What is the point of having multiple jobs if they're 4 different variations of the flavor for chocolate?

The issue I have with healers being less distinct is in how they heal. All of them feel the same in that department and all of them should have clearer healing identities first and foremost in my honest opinion.

AST with this new concept, its current iteration or its SB one is still a buffing class. No other healer has buffs quite like it so it already has it as an identity. Where it struggles is that it is a WHM clone. All its GCDs are WHM's when instead it could focus on more heavily on the regens to make it feel more different. I suppose that's why I find all this unnecessary if that makes sense.

Some thoughts on the details:

• I don't understand the thought behind making our tier one heal be combined with Esuna. Doom makes it become an overheal and there are barely any DoTs worth the cleanse + heal application trait upgrade is better imo.
  
• Astrodyne I assumed was going to be removed. Draw/Play and MA/CP along with all the other Arcanum I assumed would be one button presses. Synastry as I said would work as either a Stargazer or CI replacement so we're on agreement to that. I figured you would have removed skills to make way for these new ones, just was curious on which and where.
  
• Lodestars... again interesting concept but if I wanted a Lily/Toxicon like system I would be playing WHM or SGE. Thought the application is different enough to be intriguing its not the gameplay I personally am looking for on AST.
  
• I get why Shuffle exists, but why instead is it just not built in as a trait is my question, similar to how they changed Lord/Lady to automatically switch instead of you pressing a button to change it before you play? As in, the only way you can regenerate the cards is to use them all and lock them out natively until you do? It feels like an unneeded button press and an extra button on an already dense set of hot bars.

Debate over GCD aside (still thinks it slows APM):

• Questions on Lightspeed. I feel like this would simulate the current, get buffs out now problem since it makes a 1.5 cast time instant on AST.
  
• Why have both Stargazer and CI (or Synastry)? Just curious since both seem to do the same thing with little variance.
  
• CO being a Stop is interesting, I'm not sure if I want to also connect it to the Lodestars on top of Prem. Seems like bloat. Rather I would keep Divination as RR Balance, though we can increase its timer so it isn't 120 meta and perhaps make it stronger and just have the cards be our main buffs so to speak.
  
• ...Conversely we can as you say remove Divination have the cards again be our main buffs and maybe if we want to tie CO into something, especially if the target can't be Stopped which would be like all bosses, perhaps a well timed CO can "Stop" the ticking of the buffs we have on allies within 15y.