Get rid of SAM Limit break gimmick already (FL)

[Valence]

How do you counter a WHM aoe stun/beam ? You don’t you take it.

1) Guard counters it. You're going to tell me that you can't constantly read people's minds and know exactly when they're going to use it, indeed, but guard is still a counter and having some enemies guarded under your beam will mean you're wasting it at least on them. It generates some constraints to work around.=, like for a lot of skills.

2) Why would you need to counter it if it does nothing and gets wasted? If it hits everybody, stuns everybody, and nothing follows, then you essentially wasted the beam. However, if it hits everybody, some of them were low HP and/or purify on CD, and they die as a result (either from the beam damage or somebody finishing them off), then this is called being punished for overextension and/or being outplayed.

It's like asking how do you counter being hit by somebody in overwatch or whatever. Just don't be a target when you don't have the means to protect yourself. That's your counter.

I feel like some people just want a big pve telegraph like in storymodes before the cast or something at times...

I can understand having a problem with Zantetsuken for various reasons, but with Purgation? What?

[True-to-Caesar]

1) Guard counters it. You're going to tell me that you can't constantly read people's minds and know exactly when they're going to use it, indeed, but guard is still a counter and having some enemies guarded under your beam will mean you're wasting it at least on them. It generates some constraints to work around.=, like for a lot of skills.

2) Why would you need to counter it if it does nothing and gets wasted? If it hits everybody, stuns everybody, and nothing follows, then you essentially wasted the beam. However, if it hits everybody, some of them were low HP and/or purify on CD, and they die as a result (either from the beam damage or somebody finishing them off), then this is called being punished for overextension and/or being outplayed.

It's like asking how do you counter being hit by somebody in overwatch or whatever. Just don't be a target when you don't have the means to protect yourself. That's your counter.

I feel like some people just want a big pve telegraph like in storymodes before the cast or something at times...

I can understand having a problem with Zantetsuken for various reasons, but with Purgation? What?

You get cc and get the beam in the face, there’s no telegraph before the LB is actually used.

What I’m talking about here is not necessarily how OP a LB is, it’s how many cannot be avoided or countered at all.

Look here at 0:46

https://youtu.be/dsZVBcoB1Zs

Can you genuinely in good faith say the opponent has time to see anything coming and prepare for it ?
Of course not, it’s instant. That’s why you don’t « counter » after the damage is done. You counter to prevent it from happening or minimizing it as much as possible.

To me, when a player can’t do crap but take damage no matter what, it’s just bad PvP (and again a reason why MMOs and some mobas suck at it). Because you as a player ( your decision making speed, reaction time) is not much of a factor compared to team comp, gear in some games, jobs/classes and how strong they are, not you.

Soulsgames PvP have telegraphs, slashers games too, short but it’s there and yet they’re rewarding when you react properly to them. Especially with baits. Because that’s what makes the difference between a beginner and someone who knows how to play.

In current FFXIV PvP where you have no more than 5-7 active skills, with much less ways to react and fight back, would that be such an issue ? Because your attention can already be directed more to what is actually happening.

[Astralrisk]

You get cc and get the beam in the face, there’s no telegraph before the LB is actually used.

What I’m talking about here is not necessarily how OP a LB is, it’s how many cannot be avoided or countered at all.

Look here at 0:46

https://youtu.be/dsZVBcoB1Zs

Can you genuinely in good faith say the opponent has time to see anything coming and prepare for it ?
Of course not, it’s instant. That’s why you don’t « c.ounter » after the damage is done. You counter to prevent it from happening or minimizing it as much as possible.

It really depends on a large amount of factors Factors depending on your teammates and the enemy WHM's teammates and what they do. But If the assumption is that the WHM just engages a fight by just doing this, odds are you can recover after the burst or even guard/purify during Purgation to get a heal off before Miracle. And then you have your job's kit with how you can counter the effect with your own defensives and CC effects to counter the effect. If you assume that you can just do this to get someone from full to zero, you won't be able to. As someone who has played WHM in Diamond/Crystal I can say that this effect is more of a "pub stomp" combo, where it can easily destroy lower skilled players but anyone with experience can just recognize this combo and survive it. This applies to every job, since there is common behaviors that each job does to do big bursts and you can recognize them, even if some are less telegraphed than others.