SE, no effort anywhere lately.

[Jojoya]

What Rao said lol.

I RP and do crafting so there's my fun. I don't think it changes anything of what I said in the OP. You do you though with stupid questions like these.

A loaded question only if it makes you stop and think about your motivation for continuing to play the game if you think it's made so poorly.

Just because you log in to do certain things doesn't necessarily mean you're having fun as you do them. A lot of people stick with games they no longer enjoy out of habit.

But good to hear you are at least having fun in part of the game. Considering how many players bash the current crafting system, I'm actually a bit surprised that you're having fun with it.

[Padudu]

A loaded question only if it makes you stop and think about your motivation for continuing to play the game if you think it's made so poorly.

Just because you log in to do certain things doesn't necessarily mean you're having fun as you do them. A lot of people stick with games they no longer enjoy out of habit.

But good to hear you are at least having fun in part of the game. Considering how many players bash the current crafting system, I'm actually a bit surprised that you're having fun with it.

It's a loaded question because it 1) has nothing to do with what I said and 2) you can still have fun and acknowledge that the content has been lackluster. Lmao They aren't mutually exclusive things.

Yeah, crafting could be better tbh. But eh, keeps me entertained enough.

[NekoMataMata]

A loaded question only if it makes you stop and think about your motivation for continuing to play the game if you think it's made so poorly.

Just because you log in to do certain things doesn't necessarily mean you're having fun as you do them. A lot of people stick with games they no longer enjoy out of habit.

But good to hear you are at least having fun in part of the game. Considering how many players bash the current crafting system, I'm actually a bit surprised that you're having fun with it.

Serious question, but are you just here on the forums to be a contrarian?

I've seen you bash the game before, I've seen to critique some of the more outdated bits really heavily, but right now with a lot of people complaining about a lot of the latest releases you're in the exact opposite direct. It's not even sensible half the time, it's literally just pedal to the metal arguing against the whole thread senselessly.

What is your goal if it's not to be contrarian and argumentative?

[Jojoya]

Serious question, but are you just here on the forums to be a contrarian?

I've seen you bash the game before, I've seen to critique some of the more outdated bits really heavily, but right now with a lot of people complaining about a lot of the latest releases you're in the exact opposite direct. It's not even sensible half the time, it's literally just pedal to the metal arguing against the whole thread senselessly.

What is your goal if it's not to be contrarian and argumentative?

Some things I agree with. Some things I don't. I have no interest in being part of a hive mind. I do, however, enjoy discussing the game with other players.

Overall, I see the game positively. No game is going to be perfect but focusing on the negatives of a game doesn't not improve enjoyment of it. Players should at least acknowledge what they are enjoying about the game at the same time they talk about what could be improved.

What always confuses me are those who bash almost every part of the game but then have no problem continuing to pay $15/month to play it. If the game is that bad, why spend money on it instead of spending money on better games? They also rarely bring up examples of other comparable games doing those things better. If they can't offer examples of another game doing it right, then perhaps the real problem is players setting their expectations unrealistically high.

Finally, there's the problem of game age. Any game is going to feel dated after a while. Game developers trying to shake up a game's design formula risk alienating the long time players who had been happy with what the game had been while not attracting enough new players to offset those lost.

On the player side, any game you've played for several years is only going to start feeling easier and easier. You're familiar with the systems, you know what to expect and your skill level has increased compared to how you started. Yet the game itself still must be created to be accessible to the completely new player (not just those new to the specific game but those new to gaming in general). You can't set the skill bar too high or those players quickly drop out because they haven't had the time to build that skill. You can't overload them with mandatory content or they feel they can never get caught up (which has already been acknowledged as a problem with the MSQ and SE has announced they've been making plans to deal with it).

So, where are the examples of games that have addressed the issues that the OP brought up in their initial post in a better way than FFXIV? Are there none? If there are none, is it because the gaming industry is embracing mediocrity in general (in which case, why are gaming consumers continuing to pay to support mediocrity) or is it players setting expectations unrealistically high?

Sounds like you enjoy WoW. Which, is perfectly fine and all that. Bit strange that you if you are having so much fun in another game you feel the need to come to the forum of the game you no longer play just to bitch about it.

I mean, if you've moved on...then MOVE ON. Trust, it's the healthy thing to do.

Have fun!

Doesn't mean that moving on is easy to do when you've devoted a number of years to a game.

I had the same problem when I was leaving WoW. And the problem solves itself when game time runs out and you lose the ability to post in the game forums outside of what's available ot trial players.

Exactly! Let people go away from our game, just because they find it boring lately. Thats awesome idea! And it works. I also downloaded wow after so many years and thinking about buying a sub just because every dummy in this forum tells me I should go play other games. And lemme tell, you, Im not gonna play FF for a LOONG time before a catch up with all wow content that released. So cg. Just caps shout everybody, who wants FF14 to improve, so they can have more fun with it, to go away. Let FF die and move on! Was a fun ride while it lasted...

So then maybe the problem is that you have played this game long enough to get burned out and be in need of something different (but not too different). WoW has changed enough in the past 6 years or so that it probably doesn't feel much like the game a lot of us left because we started to hate it. It will feel fresh and new where FFXIV can't.

Let's hope it doesn't disappoint.

[Ath192]

Some things I agree with. Some things I don't. I have no interest in being part of a hive mind. I do, however, enjoy discussing the game with other players.

Overall, I see the game positively. No game is going to be perfect but focusing on the negatives of a game doesn't not improve enjoyment of it. Players should at least acknowledge what they are enjoying about the game at the same time they talk about what could be improved.

...

So, where are the examples of games that have addressed the issues that the OP brought up in their initial post in a better way than FFXIV? Are there none? If there are none, is it because the gaming industry is embracing mediocrity in general (in which case, why are gaming consumers continuing to pay to support mediocrity) or is it players setting expectations unrealistically high?



Doesn't mean that moving on is easy to do when you've devoted a number of years to a game.

I had the same problem when I was leaving WoW. And the problem solves itself when game time runs out and you lose the ability to post in the game forums outside of what's available ot trial players.

I agree with most of what you say, but a clear example, unfortunately, and as much as people want to hate it, WoW. That game has been around since 2004 or so and it still brought huge crowds for Dragon Flight. Sure it's had its failures but it does seem they experiment more than SE does.

I'm not a WoW player, but I know plenty. But it is an example regardless.

The game certainly doesn't feel like it's in maint mode.

[Jojoya]

I agree with most of what you say, but a clear example, unfortunately, and as much as people want to hate it, WoW. That game has been around since 2004 or so and it still brought huge crowds for Dragon Flight. Sure it's had its failures but it does seem they experiment more than SE does.

I'm not a WoW player, but I know plenty. But it is an example regardless.

The game certainly doesn't feel like it's in maint mode.

WoW does experiment more - and those experiments led to the player base dropping to 10% of what it had been at the game's pinnacle. That's a double-edged sword and Blizzard ended up cutting itself far too many times. It shouldn't be surprising that some other games prefer to stick to a formula that worked for them.

Dragonflight has been getting some great feedback at least. Good for Blizzard after a couple of major expansion failures.

But I don't feel like FFXIV is in maintenance mode either. YoshiP has brought up some of the problems the game has after a decade and hinted at changes that will be coming in 7.0 and beyond. The 6.x series very much is downtime in preparation for the transition and we were warned in advance what to expect. We'll have to wait for 7.0 to see if they nail the changes needed, or if it will truly end up with the downward spiral that WoW went through after its first 6 years.

For now I'm still very happy here and haven't heard enough out of Dragonflight to tempt me to go back to WoW (especially when members of my Marilith FC quit Dragonflight after 6-8 weeks mainly because of community toxicity but also because they started feeling bored after reaching max level). It could very much be a matter of personal preference. Some enjoy WoW more, some enjoy FFXIV more. That's not only perfectly fine, it's healthy for the gaming industry in general.

People usually stay, because they make bonds in the game. I know many people, who are legit Limsa AFKers, because they dont feel enjoyement with the game alone, but they enjoy spending their time talking with others. Could they spend less money and do that in games like VRChat? 100%. But they are used to FF style and most of em dont wanna change themselfs.

Other players are taking break. PF on Chaos datacentre is DEAD. Nothing happening.

"Game developers trying to shake up a game's design formula risk alienating the long time players" - not true. Long time players are mad that they dont risk anymore. Or they risk (Islands and Crtieon), but not in engaging way.

I dunno. It feels like you are just madge that others dares to speak, that they dont find current style of game... engaging.

I'm not mad at all. Different players like different things.

But I do like specifics. I do like to see counter examples of where other games have or are doing things better. Go into the Housing subforum where I talk about the problems with the FFXIV housing system and you'll frequently see me bring up RIFT Dimensions. I know housing in this game can be better because RIFT was doing it better almost a decade ago.

And I really dislike the same players flooding the forum with the same complaints over and over and over again but not doing anything to improve their situation. As someone else said earlier, it genuinely is not healthy to get stuck in that negative mind set.

If you cannot also find something positive to say about the current state of a game you're playing, you are better off finding a different game to play instead of paying just for the sake of forum access so you can continue to deepdive into the negativity.

I got to that point in WoW myself back at the end of Legion. So as I was making the break once and for all from the game, I set up parental controls and turned off the ability to post in the WoW forums. That made it much easier to walk away from a game that had changed so much I could no longer enjoy it.

But it is true that shaking up a game's formula will alienate long time players. If all long time players want change, then WoW wouldn't have dropped from 12 million subscribers at its height in Wrath down to 1-2 million subscribers in Shadowlands. Nor could the game attract enough new players with those changes to offset the losses of the long time players.

If I'm bored with what one of my current games offers and want something new, I go looking for a new game. That makes far more sense than expecting my current game to change.

[Stormpeaks]

WoW does experiment more - and those experiments led to the player base dropping to 10% of what it had been at the game's pinnacle. That's a double-edged sword and Blizzard ended up cutting itself far too many times. It shouldn't be surprising that some other games prefer to stick to a formula that worked for them.

Dragonflight has been getting some great feedback at least. Good for Blizzard after a couple of major expansion failures.

But I don't feel like FFXIV is in maintenance mode either. YoshiP has brought up some of the problems the game has after a decade and hinted at changes that will be coming in 7.0 and beyond. The 6.x series very much is downtime in preparation for the transition. We'll have to wait for 7.0 to see if they nail the changes needed, or if it will truly end up with the downward spiral that WoW went through after its first 6 years.

For now I'm still very happy here and haven't heard enough out of Dragonflight to tempt me to go back to WoW (especially when members of my Marilith FC quit Dragonflight after 6-8 weeks mainly because of community toxicity but also because they started feeling bored after reaching max level). It could very much be a matter of personal preference. Some enjoy WoW more, some enjoy FFXIV more. That's not only perfectly fine, it's healthy for the gaming industry in general.

7.0 is literally next year, that means what we have now and for the past AT LEAST 9 months is basically maintenance mode with minimal content, so much for a "working" formula

[Denhith]

7.0 is literally next year, that means what we have now and for the past AT LEAST 9 months is basically maintenance mode with minimal content, so much for a "working" formula

Between now and then we have...

New raid tier (4)
New savage raid tier (4)
New alliance raid
At least 2 new trials
At least 2 new extreme trials
Unreal Trial(s)
New Variant/Criterion/Savage dungeons
Major Island Sanctuary Update
Relic Weapon Upgrades
Relic Tool Upgrades
2 major MSQ content drops (at least)
That's not even taking into account what we are getting next week in 6.35.

You're outright trolling if you consider that to be "minimal content" and "maintenance mode".

Try harder.

[SaltyDaddy]

...

People usually stay, because they make bonds in the game. I know many people, who are legit Limsa AFKers, because they dont feel enjoyement with the game alone, but they enjoy spending their time talking with others. Could they spend less money and do that in games like VRChat? 100%. But they are used to FF style and most of em dont wanna change themselfs.

Other players are taking break. PF on Chaos datacentre is DEAD. Nothing happening.

"Game developers trying to shake up a game's design formula risk alienating the long time players" - not true. Long time players are mad that they dont risk anymore. Or they risk (Islands and Crtieon), but not in engaging way.

I dunno. It feels like you are just madge that others dares to speak, that they dont find current style of game... engaging.

[Ath192]

I dunno. It feels like you are just madge that others dares to speak, that they dont find current style of game... engaging.

And it's not. Its accessible, its streamlined, its easy. And some of that can be good but it's absolutely stale when that's 95% of it. It needs some spice and personality, Heck. Even if the game takes a turn I dislike and end up hating it I would prefer that than more of the same.

It feels like a Sensory Deprivation Tank. And I think its because the game avoids so hard to give any negative feelings to its playerbase. The problem is that to know happiness, you need to know anger and to know joy, you need to know sadness. Things just don't work when it's all flowers and rainbows.

Even the MSQ suffers from this. Like Everyone just keeps coming back. There's no depth to the sacrifice they make, they're just gonna appear back anyways.

I loved we lost a fight in stormblood. Heavensward had some noticeable sacrifices. But ever since then? Nothing.

Its funny how the game started becoming stale right after that too. It was like there was this shift to no bad or hard things again - ever. This bled into the gameplay as well, which is the biggest issue imo.