Change the duty finder penalty

[Raven2014]

I was addressing the fact that someone said OP was problematic for wanting to leave after 6 wipes in the first place.

It wouldn't be if he just "leaves", in fact many are saying he should just do exactly that. The problematic part is he claim those 6 wipes should be a license to leave without incurring a penalty.

[Kolaina]

It wouldn't be if he just "leaves", in fact many are saying he should just do exactly that. The problematic part is he claim those 6 wipes should be a license to leave without incurring a penalty.

In fairness it should be a reduced penalty. 6 wipes on a story dungeon? Starts to sound like a lost cause. The person who tried and failed at no fault of their own shouldn’t be punished so harshly.

A player causing the duty to turn out like this one in particular should be respectful of other people. Understand you are holding people up. After getting advice, and still not getting it together, try again later after practicing mechanics, or watching a video. Or at the very least, actually reading the advice given to you and attempting to put that theory into practical

[MaxCarnage]

It wouldn't be if he just "leaves", in fact many are saying he should just do exactly that. The problematic part is he claim those 6 wipes should be a license to leave without incurring a penalty.

This is what I was responding to;

if the majority thinks the run I'd fine and vote abandon doesn't go through maybe the person who wants to desperately leave is the problem? Food for thought.

Not about the penalty or lack there of, but the wanting to leave in general. It's literally two pages back. So yes, someone did say that wanting to leave in that situation was a problem.

[Raven2014]

In fairness it should be a reduced penalty. 6 wipes on a story dungeon? Starts to sound like a lost cause.

Sometime it just happens. The reason why it's easy for veteran because we can recognize most mechanic even if we run it the first time, 'cause we have seen its variation over the years. The endwalker first lvl90 was a wipe fest as well, I was part of that wipe fest and I'm a Ultimate raider simply because the first boss had a mechanic that I rarely recognize.

After getting advice, and still not getting it together, try again later after practicing mechanics, or watching a video. Or at the very least, actually reading the advice given to you and attempting to put that theory into practical

How about ... no. I'm someone who will NEVER tell someone to go watch a video. Especially for a "story" dungeon, that's like asking people to spoil the story for the shake of your own convenience. I've never watched a video, and I will never see it appropriate to tell other to do so for my own entitlement.

Also we only have OP's word to go buy, we never know what kind of "advise" he gave or how useful it is. Given the way he came across in this thread, I wouldn't be surprise he gave some instruction that didn't make sense to a new player. That's why you need more than just expert knowledge to teach someone, that's why Pedagogy is a thing.

You can have a Ph.D mathematics explain simple problem to a 5 grader and the 5 grader walking away understand nothing of value, and that wouldn't be the 5th grader's fault.

[Kolaina]

Sometime it just happens. The reason why it's easy for veteran because we can recognize most mechanic even if we run it the first time, 'cause we have seen its variation over the years. The endwalker first lvl90 was a wipe fest as well, I was part of that wipe fest and I'm a Ultimate raider simply because the first boss had a mechanic that I rarely recognize.



How about ... no. I'm someone who will NEVER tell someone to go watch a video. Especially for a "story" dungeon, that's like asking people to spoil the story for the shake of your own convenience. I've never watched a video, and I will never see it appropriate to tell other to do so for my own entitlement.

Also we only have OP's word to go buy, we never know what kind of "advise" he gave or how useful it is. Given the way he came across in this thread, I wouldn't be surprise he gave some instruction that didn't make sense to a new player. That's why you need more than just expert knowledge to teach someone, that's why Pedagogy is a thing.

You can have a Ph.D mathematics explain simple problem to a 5 grader and the 5 grader walking away understand nothing of value, and that wouldn't be the 5th grader's fault.

If the op tried, according to their account if things, 6 times, why are they still deserving of a punishment? op had way more patience than I have. It’s not like it’s a “I didn’t get the duty I want so let me re queue” and it’s not like early ARR days where roulettes didn’t exist and replacements were hard to come by. That being the cause for penalties initially btw. They have an honest effort. Took extra steps by explaining mechanics and even having a player marked to follow. But despite all that, punish them

[Raven2014]

If the op tried, according to their account if things, 6 times, why are they still deserving of a punishment? op had way more patience than I have. It’s not like it’s a “I didn’t get the duty I want so let me re queue” and it’s not like early ARR days where roulettes didn’t exist and replacements were hard to come by. That being the cause for penalties initially btw. They have an honest effort. Took extra steps by explaining mechanics and even having a player marked to follow. But despite all that, punish them

Because none of that matter. Someone put it in a fairly simple but effective way: you're duty bound. When you use the Duty Finder, you're promised none of the following:

- You will be teamed with competent player.
- Your teamate had done their homework. (Watched Guide/Video).
- You will clear the instance in less than 6 wipe (or 10 wipes for that matter).

In fact, you can also expect the complete opposite to happen. But there is one thing that is expected of you:

- You will stay until the duty is clear, or when it's expired, or when the group collectively decides to quit.

That's it . You have the choice to opt out at any time you wish at the cost of a small penalty. If any of these term displease you, you can opt to use party finder for a more customizable set of expectation, as well a free opt out clause. When you use DF, you accept the risk above, no matter how small.


While I know it's inherently a bad word, but here I want to point out "entitlement" as a definition. To claim you deserve to be given an exception to the rule because of xyz is entitlement by definition, regardless how reasonable xyz is. The opposite of that is to accept the rule apply the same to all. And usually, the rule is most enforcable when it is simple. Introduce exception is like create loophole or trojan that may increase the risk of exploit or abuse.


At the very least, you will open the can of worm once you start making exception. Because people gonna argue all kind of different xyz.
- I should not be punished because because other people suck.
- I should not be punished because real life emergency happened.
- I should not be punished because event outside of my control.
- I should not be punished because I already put in enough effort.
- I should not be punished because the group made me feel uncomfortable.
.etc.

[Gemina]

I agree you can just leave, as irritating as it may be to waste that much time only to waste more, but that's not what I was addressing. I was addressing the fact that someone said OP was problematic for wanting to leave after 6 wipes in the first place.

This is what I was responding to;

Not about the penalty or lack there of, but the wanting to leave in general. It's literally two pages back. So yes, someone did say that wanting to leave in that situation was a problem.

That's because it is a problem. When you abandon a duty, you inconvenience the players you leave behind and they have to wait for a replacement in order to continue the duty. The penalty is in place in order to de-incentivize leaving the duty when things aren't going their way. The entire group suffers as a result of those six wipes, not just the OP. His suggestion on not incurring a penalty after a certain number of wipes, and another posters suggestion on not getting it after a certain amount of time has passed is irrelevant because you are bound by the conditions of the duty (timer, ilv, objectives, number of players etc.)

By abandoning a duty, you are effectively stating that your time is more important than everyone else's. This does not include those who have a RL situation come up and need to leave the duty in order to take care of it. That's not the case here though, and a 30min penalty would be redundant in that case. The OP clearly wants to leave and immediately try again with a fresh set of players because the current group are not performing to his standards.

[Kolaina]

All I can suggest to OP is to find someone to run content with. I never have these problems in 4 person content. The person just gets removed after a couple attempts

[Masekase_Hurricane]

I think a better solution would be a reduction in the timer for dungeons 60mins or even 40mins would be much better.

[Kolaina]

I think a better solution would be a reduction in the timer for dungeons 60mins or even 40mins would be much better.

Already been suggested. Some here are hell bent on seeing it through to the end or suffer the consequences