Change the duty finder penalty

[Bloodbeat]

I totally understand where they are coming from. We've all been there. But all I see is 'I didn't get my way' (a quick dungeon or whatever) followed by 'Oh noes, I'm being held captive' (which isn't even true and apparently enough people want to continue). At that point you're just being entitled. Plain and simple. Again, you are not the centre of the universe.

I'm sorry that you see asking for situational adjustment as being an extremist point of view. It feels like you think my actions are analogous to someone dropping and running at the start of the duty because they don't like the run, or at the first wipe. If you don't think my actions are the same, then why should my penalty?
Do you think a person leaving after 8 mins is the same as a person leaving after 80 mins?
This isn't about entitlement, it's about what is reasonable, and if you champion the unreasonable then it's usually because unreasonable benefits you.

[Kaurhz]

Vote abandon exists for this very reason.

If the other people in the group didn't agree then grit your teeth and take the penalty, simple.

Personally, though, I do think that after 45 minutes within duty, there should be some leniency around penalty, say, 15 minutes.

[MaxCarnage]

I totally understand where they are coming from. We've all been there. But all I see is 'I didn't get my way' (a quick dungeon or whatever) followed by 'Oh noes, I'm being held captive' (which isn't even true and apparently enough people want to continue). At that point you're just being entitled. Plain and simple. Again, you are not the centre of the universe.

It's not about how long it took. It's not even about not getting the duty they want (be it quick or easy). I'm not sure how you got that from what people are saying. It's about how they couldn't complete it at all. No amount of explaining, marking, showing, doing was helping them. None of it. The duty was not able to be completed with the party they had.

It's not about being the centre of the universe or anything even remotely similar to that. It's not even about it not taking 15 minutes. A duty was incompletable despite multiple attempts, the vote abandon didn't go through as two wanted to leave and two wanted to stay, so someone had to get an extra 30minute penalty after dealing with that. And they're understandably upset. They're not a problem or self-centred for being very understandably upset.

[Raven2014]

Do you think a person leaving after 8 mins is the same as a person leaving after 80 mins?

First you said this is the first boss of a 4 man and it's only 6 wipes, that shouldn't add up to 80min or you're hyperboling?

Second, if it's 80min already it means 10 more and you can leave with no penalty instead of leaving at the 80min and eat a 30min pen, that's your "reduced" pen right there, happen all naturally too.

Thirdly, how often does this happen to you? I think it's safe to say most people will run into a bag group once a blue moon, either we tough it out or take the pen and leave early. It's just so rare that I just shrug them off and move on with life without letting it get to me or making a big deal out of it.

This isn't about entitlement, it's about what is reasonable, and if you champion the unreasonable then it's usually because unreasonable benefits you.

Most entitlement always start off with what they think "reasonable to them", and it is until you look at the wider context. It is reasonable to make a big deal and demand fix to a system that was there for many other reasons just because something that's very rarely happen? "CHANGE THIS BECAUSE THIS EFFECT ME ONCE A YEAR!", yeah that sound like entitlement. And if you gonna claim this happens very often to you, then it's safe to say you're not the norm. In that case I would suggest you to look at the "common" denominator in all those runs "you" have, and ponder about it.

[Toutatis]

Do you think a person leaving after 8 mins is the same as a person leaving after 80 mins?.

Meh policy is fine as it is.

Also you’re not making any sense: you only had 10 mins max to go so no need to take a 30 min penalty.

Normally you know after a few pulls if it’s going to take more time than normal and you can cut your losses early on.

If there is an abandon vote and it doesn’t go through, you lost and it’s your choice to do what you want and live with the consequence.

I just do some crafting, hop on an alt, get a coffee, etc when I decide to take the penalty. 30 mins goes fast.

[Amarande]

I have, twice. Amdapor Keep in 2.0 and release Pharos Sirius.

Indeed, how quickly we forget that ARR was much more harsh and unforgiving, even in 4-mans. People even actually got nervous about story Titan and Garuda in those days. Now Amdapor Keep has gone from a soul crusher to being so easy that it's actually the preferred place for RMTers to bot (to the point that people have sometimes reported difficulties in being able to do AK for Zodiac relics etc. as the datacenter hits the limit of simultaneous AK instances it's willing to serve - I'm assuming a side effect of whatever was done about the Stormblood solo duty debacle?).

(Maybe some instances should have a much tighter ilvl leash like was suggested in another thread ... probably especially AK, it would throw a wrench into the botters while if legitimate players find it too hard, well it's not required for MSQ and there's always Unrestricted Party)

About the only traces one still sees of that tension in dungeons is when one runs 50/60/etc. and gets handed Copperbell Hard or Lost City normal.

Personally, I'm pretty sure I remember a Brayflox that almost ran out of time in late 2.4/early 2.5. Someone leaving with under 30 minutes left on the timer and us nervously wondering if we'd get a replacement in time ...

[Gemina]

Someone is not a problem because they don't want to sit through 6 wipes that the person wiping isn't learning from regardless of explanation and marking, like OP.

6 wipes is way more than generous. He tried to help. He tried 6 times to help.

Not everyone signs up to carry players through hell. Help them? Sure. And he tried. But he's not a problematic person for running out of patience. Talk about "dumb takes".

That's not the point. If you're out of patience then you can just leave. OP is asking to not incur the penalty for abandoning the duty and players, and that's not how being bound by duty works in this game.

[Brightamethyst]

Indeed, how quickly we forget that ARR was much more harsh and unforgiving, even in 4-mans. People even actually got nervous about story Titan and Garuda in those days. Now Amdapor Keep has gone from a soul crusher to being so easy that it's actually the preferred place for RMTers to bot

Yeah. Today we laugh at it but 9 years ago Garuda story mode was the hardest 4-man fight in the game. Demon Wall would break groups if the DF didn't give you the right comp (two bards and you may as well just disband), etc.

[Raven2014]

Indeed, how quickly we forget that ARR was much more harsh and unforgiving, even in 4-mans. People even actually got nervous about story Titan and Garuda in those days.

Yeah. Today we laugh at it but 9 years ago Garuda story mode was the hardest 4-man fight in the game. Demon Wall would break groups if the DF didn't give you the right comp (two bards and you may as well just disband), etc.

I don't think these are example of the game used to be harder. You simply have the benefit of having played the for a long time.

- I'm a savage and Ultimate raider in FF14. Once a while I try a new game and I would totally looked like no0b to those who played those game a long time before.

- Just like years ago when I moved from WoW to FF14. I was a competitive - heroic raider in WoW, came to FF14 and got my butt kicked.

Also, part of the reason why fights like Titan used to be hard were because the net-code back then was really bad, and you have to fight your ping even on good connection. The way telegraph work in FF14 was also different comparing to other MMO at the time, so it took a while to get used to.

[MaxCarnage]

That's not the point. If you're out of patience then you can just leave. OP is asking to not incur the penalty for abandoning the duty and players, and that's not how being bound by duty works in this game.

I agree you can just leave, as irritating as it may be to waste that much time only to waste more, but that's not what I was addressing. I was addressing the fact that someone said OP was problematic for wanting to leave after 6 wipes in the first place.