Your Favorite Quotes

[Cleretic]

DEFINITELY: Remember us... Remember... That we once lived... - Emet-Selch

The Japanese version apparently translates to something closer to 'remember that people once stood here', which I like FAR more.

The game's strongest line to me will always be from Zenos: "Would you be happier had I a good reason?" Helped along by the context, of course--saying that to a Garlean about their empire really helps it find its mark--but it's such a strong line in general.

[Iscah]

The game's strongest line to me will always be from Zenos: "Would you be happier had I a good reason?" Helped along by the context, of course--saying that to a Garlean about their empire really helps it find its mark--but it's such a strong line in general.

Meanwhile, I deeply dislike this line from Zenos – it's seems meant as a clever thing in the moment, but it doesn't hold up to logic.

Firstly you would have to conceive of what might be a contrasting "good reason" for someone to do the things that Zenos did – killed people, destroyed an empire, indirectly caused the deaths of many more, aimed to destroy the gods themselves and the entire world if it would earn him his precious rematch.

If these acts could indeed be committed with a good reason, what relevance would that theoretical possibility have? Is it supposed to be a "well, you still think Hydaelyn is a good person" gotcha? But that comes back to the difficult and inconsistent tone they take regarding her choices across the game.

And it doesn't change the fact that Zenos did those things for a selfish reason, and Jullus has every right to be angry with him for what he did. It's not the clever shutdown to the argument that it's treated as.

[Cleretic]

Meanwhile, I deeply dislike this line from Zenos – it's seems meant as a clever thing in the moment, but it doesn't hold up to logic.

Firstly you would have to conceive of what might be a contrasting "good reason" for someone to do the things that Zenos did – killed people, destroyed an empire, indirectly caused the deaths of many more, aimed to destroy the gods themselves and the entire world if it would earn him his precious rematch.

If these acts could indeed be committed with a good reason, what relevance would that theoretical possibility have? Is it supposed to be a "well, you still think Hydaelyn is a good person" gotcha? But that comes back to the difficult and inconsistent tone they take regarding her choices across the game.

And it doesn't change the fact that Zenos did those things for a selfish reason, and Jullus has every right to be angry with him for what he did. It's not the clever shutdown to the argument that it's treated as.

I... think you might be aiming past the line. Because you've actually hit the nail on the head for why it's so good, and then missed it: there is no reason good enough. Zenos knows it, and Jullus probably knows it too. You're right, it doesn't change what Zenos did, nor does it justify it; nothing could, and nothing will. That's kinda the point. In one line, Zenos strips all the grand context out of the situation, all excuses, and just leaves Jullus with the truth: Zenos destroyed his home, and that's all the information he will ever get or need. The 'why' of it is irrelevant to him, and always has been.

You could stretch it to refer to other conflicts in the game and have some valid points, but I think the real value in it comes from being said to a Garlean, as, well, it's basically forcing him to consider what they did. The Empire unleashed bloody conquest on Ala Mhigo, Doma, Corvos, Werlyt, Bozja, all for these internal ideological reasons of superiority and purity that were tied up in hateful ideals and a genocidal ghost wizard's plan. Yeah, someone like Jullus was probably telling himself it was justifiable.

But would Raubahn be happier had they a good reason?

I love that line, because in one sentence it strips all the artifice of ideals and justification away, and just forces both Jullus and yourself to chew on it: could any answer have truly changed your mind?

[Lyth]

Meanwhile, I deeply dislike this line from Zenos – it's seems meant as a clever thing in the moment, but it doesn't hold up to logic.

It's a question, so logic can't be used to prove or disprove anything about it. Similarly, his statements about 'finding meaning' are ultimately about values, and your decision to accept or reject them has nothing to do with logic. It just depends on whether you want to be able to unquestioningly believe in absolutes like 'good' and 'evil'.

Jullus' rage in that scene comes from the fact that he believed all along that fighting for Garlemald was unquestioningly 'just' and 'good'. He himself would have slaughtered his share of the so-called 'savages' in the name of 'honour' and 'duty'. He didn't think twice about repaying the twins' kindness with taking them hostage. It's comfortable to live in a world where everything is black and white, because you need not consider such things. And now he's finally forced to confront the fact that everything he previously believed in was a lie. Zenos simply reveals that it was always a lie of Jullus' own choosing. That, in combination with the twins' actions, is transformative for Jullus' subsequent character growth.

That scene was masterfully acted on a lot of levels.

[thegreatonemal]

Meanwhile, I deeply dislike this line from Zenos – it's seems meant as a clever thing in the moment, but it doesn't hold up to logic.

Firstly you would have to conceive of what might be a contrasting "good reason" for someone to do the things that Zenos did – killed people, destroyed an empire, indirectly caused the deaths of many more, aimed to destroy the gods themselves and the entire world if it would earn him his precious rematch.

If these acts could indeed be committed with a good reason, what relevance would that theoretical possibility have? Is it supposed to be a "well, you still think Hydaelyn is a good person" gotcha? But that comes back to the difficult and inconsistent tone they take regarding her choices across the game.

And it doesn't change the fact that Zenos did those things for a selfish reason, and Jullus has every right to be angry with him for what he did. It's not the clever shutdown to the argument that it's treated as.

The Garleans are a people that jumped to taking over an entire continent for what happened to their ancestors 800 years prior and then tried to take over the other two on reasons they thought were good. So yes, saying it to a Garlean, one who until recently was on the same BS that his boss was is a takedown.