What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Raoabolic]

What in Endwalker's MSQ isn't a low bar to improve upon? lol

Man, Zot Tower was a pretty sweet dungeon that set the stage for eldritch horrors. Shame they decided to drop that motif after said dungeon. :/

[Carin-Eri]

That's a pretty low bar considering how unconvincing and disappointing take two of the Final Days actually was.

Yeah. I mean, whilst I don't dislike Endwalker as much as most of those participating in this thread (dare I admit that I actually enjoyed it for the most part?) I do feel that the whole 'final days' thing didn't really live up to what was depicted in the (frankly awesome) Endwalker cinematic. I mean, look at the dialogue from the cinematic:

(1:57) Narrator: As the chaos spread, the star seemed doomed to unravel. And yet..... there were those who stood in defiance of that fate.
(3:10) Urianger: Tis as we feared. The respite afforded this land was but fleeting. The end draws nigh.
(4:13) Y’shtola: So, Sharlayan would keep its counsel while the world is lost to ruin?
(5:02) Narrator: Past the far edge of fate... Ring blades dark and light...... Tolling the coming of the end
Though I guess the lyrics of 'Footfalls' countered the dialogue in a sense.

Still - the MSQ itself didn't quite live up to how desperate the cinematic made things look/sound.

[Saraide]

Here's a hot take for y'all: The ancients would have agreed to venat's entire plan if they were given knowledge.

It's simply ancients logic, a thing that venat was good at. So good infact that they gave her white robes to show everyone how good she was at ancients logic.

[SaitoHikari]

Man, Zot Tower was a pretty sweet dungeon that set the stage for eldritch horrors. Shame they decided to drop that motif after said dungeon. :/

I dunno about you, but Tower of Babil and Vanaspati seemed pretty eldritch horror-y too.

I've been thinking about exactly where the story might go, after the current 13th shard arc is over. Garlemald as an antagonistic nation seemingly getting off-screened wouldn't actually be that bad if it got fixed by us actually going to Corvos to see what all of the remaining Garleans with any actual power actually plan to do with their future (along with how everyone else plans to respond to that). Garlemald being off-screened doesn't mean any resolution regarding the actual survivors has to be off-screened too. But a proper resolution like that (as in, Corvos better be a region we actually visit, and not just a one-off dungeon) most likely means we aren't going across the seas immediately come next expansion, which would probably disappoint a lot of people who think new story arc means we have to abandon the Three Great Continents entirely for the sake of a fresh slate - but it'd be just as disappointing to immediately run off to the other side of the world while pretending that there aren't unresolved plot threads back home. Namedropping Corvos this much and then simply not going there would just become the latest example of a plot thread in limbo, the latest of several that didn't lead anywhere or were ultimately dropped (like literally all of the Garlemald political setup that happened throughout the post-Stormblood quests, that were ultimately kneecapped by Garlemald being abruptly off-screened).

On the other hand, even the handling of the Garlemald arc during EW itself had one particularly concerning issue: A fair number of major NPCs from Garlemald that should have come with us during the main story simply didn't. Particularly Gaius, Nero, and Cid, and Gaius especially had a VERY asspull reason for not going from a narrative standpoint. But the real reason was that all three were involved in major sidequest arcs, and the writers can't account for player progress in those sidequests possibly conflicting with their potential involvement in the main quest.

So maybe we shouldn't go to Corvos at all, at least not within FFXIV itself. Maybe the WoL has too much plot baggage and the game's narrative itself is clearly being bogged down by its own self-imposed design limitations. So maybe the devs could sidestep all of that by... Let's say, after the FFXVI team is done finishing up development on that game, they could make a spinoff game about Corvos and other regions that clearly can't be adequately explored within FFXIV itself at this point, with a new protagonist. Such a thing would have room to start elsewhere in FFXIV's timeline too - if we go there within FFXIV itself, we would only get to see it in a post-EW state. A spinoff game could begin, say, during Stormblood in the timeline of the events in FFXIV, and then go all the way to post-EW.

[KageTokage]

Here's a hot take for y'all: The ancients would have agreed to venat's entire plan if they were given knowledge.

It's simply ancients logic, a thing that venat was good at. So good infact that they gave her white robes to show everyone how good she was at ancients logic.

The white robes were just a sign of seniority for former Convocation members who chose not to return the star immediately after they retired.

And sure, if they had collectively agreed as a society to go through with the Sundering, then I would've been A-OK with it, but rather she simply decided she knew better then...basically everyone else because she didn't trust even her closest followers with the truth.

[Saraide]

The white robes were just a sign of seniority for former Convocation members who chose not to return the star immediately after they retired.

And sure, if they had collectively agreed as a society to go through with the Sundering, then I would've been A-OK with it, but rather she simply decided she knew better then...basically everyone else because she didn't trust even her closest followers with the truth.

Nope it marks them as impartial and trustable advisors.

[Absimiliard]

Nope it marks them as impartial and trustable advisors.

The white robes only mark her as an advisor. Hythlodaeus took them to mean she would be trustworthy and impartial. While a certain degree of assumption of impartiality and trustworthiness can be made based on the advisory role she retained (as the Convocation probably wouldn't have awarded it otherwise) after departing the seat of Azem, those are none the less not the meaning behind the robe.

Doubt the ancients' society would've been down with going extinct anyway, judging by how hard they fought to survive the Final Days. As for Venat, while her advisory position does mean others are more likely to listen to her, events in Elpis rather clearly demonstrate that even she needs to be able to back up her assertions with fact if she expects the Convocation to take her seriously. Kinda hard for her to do that without spilling all of the proverbial beans.

[Saraide]

The white robes only mark her as an advisor. Hythlodaeus took them to mean she would be trustworthy and impartial. While a certain degree of assumption of impartiality and trustworthiness can be made based on the advisory role she retained (as the Convocation probably wouldn't have awarded it otherwise) after departing the seat of Azem, those are none the less not the meaning behind the robe.

Doubt the ancients' society would've been down with going extinct anyway, judging by how hard they fought to survive the Final Days. As for Venat, while her advisory position does mean others are more likely to listen to her, events in Elpis rather clearly demonstrate that even she needs to be able to back up her assertions with fact if she expects the Convocation to take her seriously. Kinda hard for her to do that without spilling all of the proverbial beans.

Oh of course, how could I forget. Hythlodaeus famously is a person not well versed in the ancient's culture so his interpretation is very untrustworthy especially when themis' off hand remark does nothing to contradict his claim.

The ancients were down to sacrifice downright everything to stop the extinction of the planet, given her information they would have agreed. You are correct that she would have had to disclose everything and that's precisely why she didnt. The risk of hermes turning again was too great.

[Absimiliard]

Oh of course, how could I forget. Hythlodaeus famously is a person not well versed in the ancient's culture so his interpretation is very untrustworthy especially when themis' off hand remark does nothing to contradict his claim.

The ancients were down to sacrifice downright everything to stop the extinction of the planet, given her information they would have agreed. You are correct that she would have had to disclose everything and that's precisely why she didnt. The risk of hermes turning again was too great.

1.) Or, and here's a thought - maybe the EN text misconstrues a few things? Because it does. In fact, the EN version of the game misconstrues a lot of things, with the white robe being one of those things.

2.) At this point, we've had more of her motivations revealed to us. Her chief motivation was to shoot for enabling the WoL's timeline, while her second was in fact to to end her own species due to strongly believing they would end up like what players were shown the Plenty to have become. It had little to nothing to do with the planned sacrifices to Zodiark as others will so often posit. In other words, even without Hermes present, they would never have been told.

Even putting the above aside, the Convocation only had say in Amaurot, Elpis, and any other Amaurotine outposts that may or may not have existed. Getting them onboard wouldn't mean the entire world is also down with it, not that they would've agreed to start with. The Convocation's primary directive is the wellbeing of those beneath him, and gambling everything on a future that may not even be possible to reach not logical. It might've been possible to convince a minority - as shown by Venat having followers already - of the need to sunder the world, but the majority of people, ancient or not, aren't anywhere near altruistic enough to cease to exist for the sake of something that might not be possible. Sacrificing to Zodiark, meanwhile, at least guaranteed long term success (so far as they were aware) and meant eventually being resurrected anyway. Big difference there.

People seem to forget the ancients were... well, people. They possessed all the same emotions and emotional needs as their sundered counterparts, albeit most of them had more self-control. Their fears, motivations, and desires were mostly the same. Their willingness to sacrifice for one another far exceeded that of the ancients, but they weren't without a sense of self-preservation. Desperation will push people to go well outside their usual comfort zones, but even the desperate are going to choose the thing they perceive as being more likely to give them a beneficial outcome over an obvious gamble.

[Saraide]

1.) Or, and here's a thought - maybe the EN text misconstrues a few things? Because it does. In fact, the EN version of the game misconstrues a lot of things, with the white robe being one of those things.

2.) At this point, we've had more of her motivations revealed to us. Her chief motivation was to shoot for enabling the WoL's timeline, while her second was in fact to to end her own species due to strongly believing they would end up like what players were shown the Plenty to have become. It had little to nothing to do with the planned sacrifices to Zodiark as others will so often posit. In other words, even without Hermes present, they would never have been told.

Even putting the above aside, the Convocation only had say in Amaurot, Elpis, and any other Amaurotine outposts that may or may not have existed. Getting them onboard wouldn't mean the entire world is also down with it, not that they would've agreed to start with. The Convocation's primary directive is the wellbeing of those beneath him, and gambling everything on a future that may not even be possible to reach not logical. It might've been possible to convince a minority - as shown by Venat having followers already - of the need to sunder the world, but the majority of people, ancient or not, aren't anywhere near altruistic enough to cease to exist for the sake of something that might not be possible. Sacrificing to Zodiark, meanwhile, at least guaranteed long term success (so far as they were aware) and meant eventually being resurrected anyway. Big difference there.

People seem to forget the ancients were... well, people. They possessed all the same emotions and emotional needs as their sundered counterparts, albeit most of them had more self-control. Their fears, motivations, and desires were mostly the same. Their willingness to sacrifice for one another far exceeded that of the ancients, but they weren't without a sense of self-preservation. Desperation will push people to go well outside their usual comfort zones, but even the desperate are going to choose the thing they perceive as being more likely to give them a beneficial outcome over an obvious gamble.

Ah of course everything can be deflected by just vaguely pointing at localization. I forgot, please forgive my mistake and I take everything back