Do you ever think about how people play games to escape yet...

[Raoabolic]

DF and any matchmaking ruined everything in MMORPGS.
The whole point of getting into an MMORPG was to explore and create communities, discover new ways to play , seek for help, be the best guild or make parties to go hunt a strong foe and not getting your hand hold without any risks to the point that you don't even need to interact with anyone in order to beat the game.

Most people here don't even know how it feels to wait or scout for a priest player to ask for some buffs in order to make the dungeon a bit easy.
Here 23 years later what we have now?

-Click on menu
-Click on Duty finder
-Click on the dungeon I want
-Wait between 5-15 minutes.
-Teleport in to the dungeon from any point.
- o/
-o7
-The only risk it's our healer/tank dc or felt to sleep.
-Mobs don't drop anything, not even money or experience
-Straight corridors, item level doesn't matter, party composition neither.
-Dungeon ends, nobody sees each other in their life's again.
-Repeat.

Then I suppose this is what "modern gamers" wants, instant gratification and rewards even for the minimum effort.

Don't forget PvP battlepasses!
...yech...

[Amarande]

Don't forget PvP battlepasses!
...yech...

Honestly, the battle pass format has its merits, as long as it's not the typical cash grab battle pass you see in so many games (where sometimes you literally can't even finish the battlepass through actual gameplay even if you are an unemployed Monster-fueled teenager, after a certain point you HAVE to pay - and often pay plenty - to mathematically get enough points).

XIV's implementation is not monetized, so there's that.

It means that rewards are granted through sustained interest and participation, which (ideally) helps maintain said interest at all levels (and if anything XIV struggles to encourage player participation in PvP at all outside of the small cadre at the top of Feast and now CC - who mostly to my understanding stop playing once they've secured their berths). The more you play, the more you get.

Contrast a system that's heavily made to benefit winners (like the OLD XIV PvP system, where once you farmed enough easy-to-accumulate wolf marks from Frontlines to get the glams you wanted, you were done, because anything "special" was exclusive for top Feast players and frankly, apparently even if you had the moxie, the system was ridiculously gamed at that level anyways).

Now you have a rewards system where only a tiny few players per year get anything of note and everyone else gets peanuts. Once players realize they're not going to be in line for the championship in such a system, they tend to quit. Most have had their fill of the actual gameplay by that point, so they're looking at all grind, no rewards. The few remaining "gold tier" or whatever players start to find they can barely play even if they want to, because there's no longer enough closely rated players to pop queues in reasonable time (they're all clustered at the champ level and at the ultra casual sandlot level that doesn't really care about winning, and based on the experiences of friends in multiple games, this does seem tied to the reward system, not to any specific game).

Summary, monetized battle passes are slimy, but non-monetized battle passes may actually be a good way to encourage continued participation outside the champ level, and XIV desperately does need this.

[Simple_Barghest]

DF and any matchmaking ruined everything in MMORPGS.
The whole point of getting into an MMORPG was to explore and create communities, discover new ways to play , seek for help, be the best guild or make parties to go hunt a strong foe and not getting your hand hold without any risks to the point that you don't even need to interact with anyone in order to beat the game.

Most people here don't even know how it feels to wait or scout for a priest player to ask for some buffs in order to make the dungeon a bit easy.
Here 23 years later what we have now?

-Click on menu
-Click on Duty finder
-Click on the dungeon I want
-Wait between 5-15 minutes.
-Teleport in to the dungeon from any point.
- o/
-o7
-The only risk it's our healer/tank dc or felt to sleep.
-Mobs don't drop anything, not even money or experience
-Straight corridors, item level doesn't matter, party composition neither.
-Dungeon ends, nobody sees each other in their life's again.
-Repeat.

Then I suppose this is what "modern gamers" wants, instant gratification and rewards even for the minimum effort.

Filing this under "person who never had to deal with two or three guilds controlling the entirety of end-game content and preventing you from ever playing on their level if you didn't kiss the ring or pay your tithe."
Classic WoW's clique issue is something the nostalgia-obsessed never want to remember, even though it was a massive part of many of those servers. If you weren't part of the club, you didn't get to play the game.

[Raoabolic]

Filing this under "person who never had to deal with two or three guilds controlling the entirety of end-game content and preventing you from ever playing on their level if you didn't kiss the ring or pay your tithe."
Classic WoW's clique issue is something the nostalgia-obsessed never want to remember, even though it was a massive part of many of those servers. If you weren't part of the club, you didn't get to play the game.

Fun fact, the guy who made HNM (rare spawn boss monsters) in XI such a pain to camp because he instaclaimed the mob with instavoke scripts and addons co-created Discord! Food for thought.

[Simple_Barghest]

Fun fact, the guy who made HNM (rare spawn boss monsters) in XI such a pain to camp because he instaclaimed the mob with instavoke scripts and addons co-created Discord! Food for thought.

I'm simultaneously confused as fuck considering this is trivia I'm not sure how to verify, and yet... That doesn't seem out-of-place at all considering Discord's inherent leanings to clique behavior.

[Iscah]

Key thing that i noticed on reflecting real life is always the steps they take to remove Gil from the economy.
It doesn't hurt those who already have it, but like IRL it hurts those who don't have it and makes it harder for them to get it.
The changes to the teleport prices being a big example of it.

Never won the lottery IRL? Dont worry, you wont win the Jumbo Cactpot and thats not even a meaningful amount of currency AND is a requirement for an achievement, totally locked behind RNG, The devs show a lack of understanding of probability as well with this with their "Keep playing, you will win in time." I have played every week since the release of Goldsaucer, this statement is a lie lol.

Teleport prices didn't "go up" universally, no matter how loudly people were shrieking about it at the time. I compared the prices from that first image and some categories had improved, especially ones you'd be likely to do regularly.

And from memory I'm pretty sure that the achievement/title relating to the Jumbo Cactpot was a cumulative total, not requiring a direct win, unless there is a second achievement that doesn't reward any tangible prizes.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

Here 23 years later what we have now?

People hating on others because they "don't know how things should be done" or "don't know how to have fun", I guess ?

The communities you're talking about still exist in high level content, on raiding discords and such. Behave like an ass, and you're gonna be flagged for it, behave well, and you're gonna be commended by others.

And yes, there are people that only want to do gpose and daily roulettes, but you're both misinformed and petty if you really stand by those takes... What they do with their time/characters is of no importance to you, and I'm tired of people sticking their nose into others business when they have no reason to.

[Raoabolic]

I'm simultaneously confused as fuck considering this is trivia I'm not sure how to verify, and yet... That doesn't seem out-of-place at all considering Discord's inherent leanings to clique behavior.

In XI he was Stanislav. Made a name for himself by doing those things and then when an LS would get cozy with him he would steal high priced and sought after items in the LS bank. You can read more about it at your local XI forums!
Think I forgot, Stan? That was pretty funny, almost as funny as the great salvage ban. It's one of those things where the lesson is "don't trust online people unless you REALLY know them." lol.

[Mcg55ss]

There's a massive crowd of people on FF14 that seem determined to bring real life aspects to the game?

A huge part of ffxiv's culture is gpose, but there's such an obession over it that it's almost like being on instagram. I haven't looked at my insta since the pandemic ended, but I was recently thinking and it just hit me that FFXIV is basically virtual insta at this point.

This always happens people will troll, or bring in political stuff into chat all the time. However maybe because I'm on the newer servers but the amounts I see in this MMO compared to WoW is as different as night and day

[Amarande]

This always happens people will troll, or bring in political stuff into chat all the time. However maybe because I'm on the newer servers but the amounts I see in this MMO compared to WoW is as different as night and day

Political stuff rarely seems to be a big thing from what I've seen (at least in NN, which tends to be the most active and noticeable ingame chat). You get the occasional political troll (and some of them can be pretty persistent about coming back on alts for quite some time before giving up - or perhaps running out of different addresses/credit cards to create new accounts with after they get banned? ...), but that's a minority of things, especially compared to WoW where trade chat on larger Alliance servers is practically FOX News apart from the ads being for guilds and carry services instead of Medicare Advantage and your car's extended warranty (trade chat on larger Horde servers is such an endless ticker of guild and carry ads that conversation of any kind is usually impossible anyways).

Most conflict and perception of "trolling" (which is a fuzzy term anyway, as the nature of internet arguments is that one person's spirited disagreement is ALWAYS another person's trolling, just as "toxic" usually gets applied as an umbrella to "any culture I don't agree/feel comfortable personally with") seems to derive from disagreement over the conduct of battle content (e.g., should sprouts be expected to keep up with speedrun culture for the sake of burned out teammates just there for the roulette, or should everyone be expected to aspire to Savage/Ultimate raider precision regardless of how casual the content they do is, or the eternal debates about PF etc. etc.).

The one thing consistently chill is crafting. It's weird. People will get more bent out of shape over dungeons taking a few minutes longer than over blowing up over a million gil's worth of mats by a macro error or fat fingered craft action ...