Option to privatize or opt-out of lodestone displaying character. Show your support!

[Gemina]

Making your profile private might be slightly inconvenient, but it's 100% less inconvenient than having to delete your account and start again from scratch...

I'm still not quite sure how this could promote illicit activity. If you report someone, SE would still be able to see who's account that report is linked to, even if they changed their name and settings.

It's 100% more convenient to not have to do it in the first place. That's the point. And if a good person can make themselves a shadow to avoid a troublesome individual(s), the same benefit is granted to a toxic person who wants to evade the trouble they've caused. Zoom out and put more thought into what you're proposing or supporting.

Sure, it would be better to not make enemies in the game, but some people are crazy and irrational. Like a vindictive ex that wants to drag you through the mud and ruin your social life. Relationships sometime fall apar, it's just life.

Ever hear or read the saying, "Birds of a feather"? You're right, some people are crazy and irrational. Those people tend to surround themselves with others who are crazy and irrational. Hopefully you see where I am going with this.

[Senn]

Ever hear or read the saying, "Birds of a feather"? You're right, some people are crazy and irrational. Those people tend to surround themselves with others who are crazy and irrational. Hopefully you see where I am going with this.

Yes you're right, but that's not always the case.

It's 100% more convenient to not have to do it in the first place. That's the point. And if a good person can make themselves a shadow to avoid a troublesome individual(s), the same benefit is granted to a toxic person who wants to evade the trouble they've caused. Zoom out and put more thought into what you're proposing or supporting.

If your concern is that toxic people can abuse the system by "disappearing", well... they are already doing that. A toxic person can already stalk and harass someone by making an alt, making a new account, or free trial account. They are already hiding themselves. What difference does it make if they private their lodestone? Which, by the way, they can still be reported and banned even if they do private their lodestone. This might even be better in the long run because if people choose to be toxic on their main account and not on an alt, they can get banned and lose their stuff - which probably means they're less likely to do that kinda thing on their main.

If your goal is to be toxic and harass/stalk someone, why would you do it on your main account? Like, why would you risk a ban on your main character?

Toxic people are gonna toxic. The victims of their harassment and stalking are sitting ducks with no way out of the situation.

[Gemina]

Yes you're right, but that's not always the case.

No, it isn't always the case. But for the most part it is, and what's dismissed is the accountability. While the person being harassed/stalked is definitely the victim, they refuse to look at certain truths about how they got into that situation in the first place. People hate to hear the truth unless it benefits them. It's just how it is.

If your concern is that toxic people can abuse the system by "disappearing", well... they are already doing that. A toxic person can already stalk and harass someone by making an alt, making a new account, or free trial account. They are already hiding themselves. What difference does it make if they private their lodestone? Which, by the way, they can still be reported and banned even if they do private their lodestone. This might even be better in the long run because if people choose to be toxic on their main account and not on an alt, they can get banned and lose their stuff - which probably means they're less likely to do that kinda thing on their main.

All of this can be said about the victim trying to evade their stalker. Like the terminator, they will continue to pursue the victim, so why give them another means to do so? This is a common issue in legislation, and idiot lawmakers often fail to see how proposed/passed bills can often benefit the criminal more than it does the general public. I'm not saying you're an idiot, and I don't oppose protecting victims from these jerks. Your heart is in the right place.

If your goal is to be toxic and harass/stalk someone, why would you do it on your main account? Like, why would you risk a ban on your main character?

Toxic people are gonna toxic. The victims of their harassment and stalking are sitting ducks with no way out of the situation.

Remember how some players who have been banned or faced some kind of disciplinary action from the devs were caught while streaming? The reason why people will do these kind of things on their mains is the same reason why a criminal who gets a slap on the wrist will continue to commit crimes. It's because the action they face for their trespasses is of no consequence to them. Toxic players in FFXIV know they can be arseholes because they know that SE won't do what is necessary to rid the game of them. Even in your OP, it was mentioned that the cheaters of Omega Ultimate are being harassed, which means they were not permanently banned. So what exactly is going to stop the next band of cheaters when SE releases the next Ultimate encounter? Toxic players don't even need to create an alt, or start a free trial to commit their atrocities, and genuine, wholesome, and honest players shouldn't need to make their lodestone private, create an alt, or otherwise start all over again to avoid them. That is the point I am trying to get across.

[Senn]

No, it isn't always the case. But for the most part it is, and what's dismissed is the accountability. While the person being harassed/stalked is definitely the victim, they refuse to look at certain truths about how they got into that situation in the first place. People hate to hear the truth unless it benefits them. It's just how it is.

It's not our job to finger wave at them and patronize them for their mistakes. I'm sure these victims of harassment and stalking will self reflect as they hide their lodestone page, and spend money on a name change and possibly a server transfer. No need to rub salt in the wound.

All of this can be said about the victim trying to evade their stalker. Like the terminator, they will continue to pursue the victim, so why give them another means to do so? This is a common issue in legislation, and idiot lawmakers often fail to see how proposed/passed bills can often benefit the criminal more than it does the general public. I'm not saying you're an idiot, and I don't oppose protecting victims from these jerks. Your heart is in the right place.

How would the harasser keep pursuing them if the victim privates their lodestone and changes their name and server? The harasser is already making alts and different accounts to bypass the blacklist - they are essentially "hiding" their lodestone so to speak.

Remember how some players who have been banned or faced some kind of disciplinary action from the devs were caught while streaming? The reason why people will do these kind of things on their mains is the same reason why a criminal who gets a slap on the wrist will continue to commit crimes. It's because the action they face for their trespasses is of no consequence to them. Toxic players in FFXIV know they can be arseholes because they know that SE won't do what is necessary to rid the game of them. Even in your OP, it was mentioned that the cheaters of Omega Ultimate are being harassed, which means they were not permanently banned. So what exactly is going to stop the next band of cheaters when SE releases the next Ultimate encounter? Toxic players don't even need to create an alt, or start a free trial to commit their atrocities, and genuine, wholesome, and honest players shouldn't need to make their lodestone private, create an alt, or otherwise start all over again to avoid them. That is the point I am trying to get across.

Let the GMs handle it. You aren't their parent, guardian, family member, or anything. It's for the GMs to investigate this case and come to a decision based on whether or not the ToS has been violated.

[Gemina]

It's not our job to finger wave at them and patronize them for their mistakes. I'm sure these victims of harassment and stalking will self reflect as they hide their lodestone page, and spend money on a name change and possibly a server transfer. No need to rub salt in the wound.

Who's job is it then? If you care about someone then it isn't about who's job it is, it's providing them a courtesy by making them aware of their own mistakes. And no, they will not self-reflect and correct if they are coddled. This is not how the human brain works. They will in fact do the exact opposite.

How would the harasser keep pursuing them if the victim privates their lodestone and changes their name and server? The harasser is already making alts and different accounts to bypass the blacklist - they are essentially "hiding" their lodestone so to speak.

Listen to what you're saying here. The victim has to make their lodestone private, change their name, change their server. And in the worse cases, they might have to start all over again. All the while you give the harasser the ability to do the same thing with their own account(s). If you cannot see what is wrong here, then I do not know how to explain it further. You need to realize that in one breath you're saying that a player making their lodestone private will protect them, and then when you argue in the next breath you say that the harasser making their lodestone private won't protect them.

Let the GMs handle it. You aren't their parent, guardian, family member, or anything. It's for the GMs to investigate this case and come to a decision based on whether or not the ToS has been violated.

If this is how you feel, then let them do their job. If this is how you feel, then what is the point of this thread? Please understand that I am on your side, and I don't want harassment and stalking taking place in any form on this game, or any other, or any other platform. I want the offenders punished, and made an example of to let others would be arseholes know what awaits them should they decide to violate the ToS instead of allowing others to maintain an enjoyable experience while online.

[IDontPetLalas]

Who's job is it then? If you care about someone then it isn't about who's job it is, it's providing them a courtesy by making them aware of their own mistakes. And no, they will not self-reflect and correct if they are coddled. This is not how the human brain works. They will in fact do the exact opposite.


Listen to what you're saying here. The victim has to make their lodestone private, change their name, change their server. And in the worse cases, they might have to start all over again. All the while you give the harasser the ability to do the same thing with their own account(s). If you cannot see what is wrong here, then I do not know how to explain it further. You need to realize that in one breath you're saying that a player making their lodestone private will protect them, and then when you argue in the next breath you say that the harasser making their lodestone private won't protect them.


If this is how you feel, then let them do their job. If this is how you feel, then what is the point of this thread? Please understand that I am on your side, and I don't want harassment and stalking taking place in any form on this game, or any other, or any other platform. I want the offenders punished, and made an example of to let others would be arseholes know what awaits them should they decide to violate the ToS instead of allowing others to maintain an enjoyable experience while online.

I'm sorry, but do you understand the concept of the information that player would have access to and the information that GMs would have access to? Because it sounds like it flew right over your head, and that makes the world of difference here.

If the profile is set to private, it protects someone who may be the victim of harassment since there is no way for a user to find them as they can't access that profile and have no access to internal identifiers - i.e. system identifiers. It protects them from a harasser.

However, there should be internal systems at SE that don't care about whether the profile is private or not, and there are people with access - possible SE employees, maybe not - could be GMs, whatever- who can look up a character and track them no matter what they do. Thus a harasser is NOT protected, if they change their name , change their profile settings, change servers, etc.

Personally, I would have the lodestone profile set to private by default, but at least- have a private option.

[Senn]

I'm sorry, but do you understand the concept of the information that player would have access to and the information that GMs would have access to? Because it sounds like it flew right over your head, and that makes the world of difference here.

If the profile is set to private, it protects someone who may be the victim of harassment since there is no way for a user to find them as they can't access that profile and have no access to internal identifiers - i.e. system identifiers. It protects them from a harasser.

However, there should be internal systems at SE that don't care about whether the profile is private or not, and there are people with access - possible SE employees, maybe not - could be GMs, whatever- who can look up a character and track them no matter what they do. Thus a harasser is NOT protected, if they change their name , change their profile settings, change servers, etc.

Personally, I would have the lodestone profile set to private by default, but at least- have a private option.

Exactly this. Stalking and harassing is against the ToS, so just report the person doing it. Even if they hide their lodestone profile, change their name, and transfer their server, a GM can still find them. I don't know why people seem to think this system can be abused, and the harassers hiding their lodestone will have zero consequences. That's not how it would work at all. Just make sure you fill out all the necessary information in your report (date, time, etc...)

[Seraphor]

It's 100% more convenient to not have to do it in the first place. That's the point. And if a good person can make themselves a shadow to avoid a troublesome individual(s), the same benefit is granted to a toxic person who wants to evade the trouble they've caused. Zoom out and put more thought into what you're proposing or supporting.

I don't think you seem to understand what is being suggested.

1. If someone is being harassed, they cannot control it. Another, separate individual is committing the harassment. "Just don't get harassed" isn't a viable solution, and victim blaming is not a flattering look.
2. An individual cannot evade moderation by hiding their profile, or changing their privacy setting. While you or I may not be able to track them, SE definitely can. That is the whole point. SE should be dealing with these things, not lay players. We're trying to avoid vigilante justice here.

[Rilifane]

I don't think you seem to understand what is being suggested.

1. If someone is being harassed, they cannot control it. Another, separate individual is committing the harassment. "Just don't get harassed" isn't a viable solution, and victim blaming is not a flattering look.
2. An individual cannot evade moderation by hiding their profile, or changing their privacy setting. While you or I may not be able to track them, SE definitely can. That is the whole point. SE should be dealing with these things, not lay players. We're trying to avoid vigilante justice here.

Exactly.
I'm 100% on board with people being able to protect themselves from harassment. If someone is harassing someone else, SE can track them without problems the moment they got reported, no amount of name changes, server changes etc. will change that, the account that was used to harass someone can and will get tracked.
You can't protect yourself against harassment by "just don't get harrassed lol" or "just don't surround yourself with crazy people" - that's not how it works. You don't just get harassed because you're doing uwu emoting while half naked in Limsa and flirting with sweaty people that want to bone a cat girl. You can get harassed for all kinds of reasons and it's often enough something you played absolutely no part in because if someone wants to be an asshole, they don't need you to give them a reason or permission first. They'll do it.

And it's quite frankly ridiculous that the blacklist feature is as bad as it is, that someone can teleport to you after a divorce, that it took them 4 expansions to look at the fact that deleting people from your friendlist won't remove you from theirs and that a payed name change doesn't do anything because you can still easily be tracked.
Players should be able to protect themselves from people they don't want to interact with but that keep trying to interact with them.
Reporting will enable SE to track the perpetrator without problems, regardless of name and server changes. They can't hide unless they're using a throwaway account but in that case, opt-out option will change even less in favour of the perpetrators.

[Denji]

I don't think you seem to understand what is being suggested.

1. If someone is being harassed, they cannot control it. Another, separate individual is committing the harassment. "Just don't get harassed" isn't a viable solution, and victim blaming is not a flattering look.
2. An individual cannot evade moderation by hiding their profile, or changing their privacy setting. While you or I may not be able to track them, SE definitely can. That is the whole point. SE should be dealing with these things, not lay players. We're trying to avoid vigilante justice here.

It's basically impossible to get the blacklist function to even work and when it does work it only blacklists that specific alt yet when you report anything the first thing you see is "Have you considered blacklisting this person?"