(Wildly speculative) idea about the next overarching threat - *spoilers*

[RyuDragnier]

Yeah, this is generally an explanation for why it was framed (I think in Heavensward's patches but I'm not certain) that the eighth Calamity was basically the 'last chance' to stop the Ascians. I remember seeing justifications like this, if not exactly this. If I had to guess, it sounds like something someone who generally sides with the Ascians would say to lessen the amount of active atrocities they'd be pulling the triggers on; that no, they won't be performing more acts of mass death after this because then it'd just happen naturally.

My reading of this around Shadowbringers was just that after the eighth Calamity there would be enough Zodiark put together to be able to sacrifice things to him to get the rest to happen, rather than doing it the long way; reasonably there had to be a point where this was plausible, because they weren't completely screwed after the Thirteenth was ruined, so who's to say it's not after #8? But now I think the 'last chance' angle actually makes sense because it came from Hydaelyn, who had a vague map of how everything goes after the Sundering because of us. It wasn't that there was literally no way to stop them after the eighth Calamity, it was that if they pulled off that one then she's completely in uncharted waters, and possibly out of resources to keep trying.

There's also the look at it from the original timeline before us going back into the past...Hydaelyn has no more souls that made her up to use to stay afloat, she's going to die after one more Rejoining, period. The 8th Calamity is the last one needed because Hydaelyn won't be there after it is done.

[SaitoHikari]

Yeah, this is generally an explanation for why it was framed (I think in Heavensward's patches but I'm not certain) that the eighth Calamity was basically the 'last chance' to stop the Ascians. I remember seeing justifications like this, if not exactly this. If I had to guess, it sounds like something someone who generally sides with the Ascians would say to lessen the amount of active atrocities they'd be pulling the triggers on; that no, they won't be performing more acts of mass death after this because then it'd just happen naturally.

My reading of this around Shadowbringers was just that after the eighth Calamity there would be enough Zodiark put together to be able to sacrifice things to him to get the rest to happen, rather than doing it the long way; reasonably there had to be a point where this was plausible, because they weren't completely screwed after the Thirteenth was ruined, so who's to say it's not after #8? But now I think the 'last chance' angle actually makes sense because it came from Hydaelyn, who had a vague map of how everything goes after the Sundering because of us. It wasn't that there was literally no way to stop them after the eighth Calamity, it was that if they pulled off that one then she's completely in uncharted waters, and possibly out of resources to keep trying.

Adding to this, it's possible that while we were in Elpis, she may have used her Echo on us to obtain off-hand information about the effects of the 8th Calamity, because naturally the events of ShB (and us hearing the story of what happened in the other timeline) had to have happened in order for us to travel back to Elpis to begin with. So she likely knew that the 8th Calamity left the world in a state so bad that a group of survivors decided that their reality was doomed no matter what, and focused all of their efforts on sending the Crystal Tower back in time to another shard in an incredibly desperate attempt to save the WoL in a different timeline.

Now, exactly why the 8th Calamity was that bad is something we don't exactly know. Did Zodiark gain enough power for the rest of the rejoinings to start happening naturally? Or did the Ascians gravely miscalculate the effects of the 8th Calamity, leaving the Source in a state so bad that it couldn't heal from its effects, just like what happened with the Void? If the latter, maybe that would explain why the surviving Ascians (assuming they didn't also perish in the Calamity or ended up greatly hindered by it in some way) did not try to stop the group of survivors from using the Crystal Tower in such a way. Either way, it's probably one of those questions that will never get answered.

Although... It could be an interesting plot point if an antagonist from the future were to use the Crystal Tower to travel back in time to our present point, in an attempt to stifle or kill key figures that they perceive to have played a big part in their personal bad future.

[Cleretic]

There's also the look at it from the original timeline before us going back into the past...Hydaelyn has no more souls that made her up to use to stay afloat, she's going to die after one more Rejoining, period. The 8th Calamity is the last one needed because Hydaelyn won't be there after it is done.

Yeah, that's kinda what I meant by 'out of resources'. Given how fast she died after our fight against her, with no 'final blow' like how Amon had Zodiark punch himself through, it seems likely that she just didn't have enough juice to help for much longer. It's entirely possible that in the 8UC timeline Hydaelyn starved to death.

Incidentally, I just remembered how disappointed I was that once we got back from the Aitiascope, we didn't see the Scions break the universe's worst good news/bad news combo to Sharlayan. "Okay, so! Hydaelyn's real, we met her, she's nice, we have a plan. ...sooooo, the bad news..."

[Iscah]

Yeah, this is generally an explanation for why it was framed (I think in Heavensward's patches but I'm not certain) that the eighth Calamity was basically the 'last chance' to stop the Ascians.

It wasn't even from within the game, just from early promotional stuff for Shadowbringers.

There was never any hint in the game, so far as I recall, that either the Ascians or the Scions saw any significance in the eighth Rejoining as a turning point in the process. Again, that's just what fans speculated might be the reason why the devs hinted that it would be the last.

As it turned out, that "eighth and final" calamity was the particularly catastrophic Black Rose event, which (at least at the time they said it) they may have intended to mean either the last calamity in that timeline before it was undone, or possibly even the last one before humanity was wiped out entirely by the lingering effects of it.

[Cleretic]

It wasn't even from within the game, just from early promotional stuff for Shadowbringers.

There was never any hint in the game, so far as I recall, that either the Ascians or the Scions saw any significance in the eighth Rejoining as a turning point in the process. Again, that's just what fans speculated might be the reason why the devs hinted that it would be the last.

As it turned out, that "eighth and final" calamity was the particularly catastrophic Black Rose event, which (at least at the time they said it) they may have intended to mean either the last calamity in that timeline before it was undone, or possibly even the last one before humanity was wiped out entirely by the lingering effects of it.

Wow, I'm genuinely disappointed in all of us for taking a vague advertising tagline THAT seriously.

[SannaR]

It wasn't even from within the game, just from early promotional stuff for Shadowbringers.

There was never any hint in the game, so far as I recall, that either the Ascians or the Scions saw any significance in the eighth Rejoining as a turning point in the process. Again, that's just what fans speculated might be the reason why the devs hinted that it would be the last.

As it turned out, that "eighth and final" calamity was the particularly catastrophic Black Rose event, which (at least at the time they said it) they may have intended to mean either the last calamity in that timeline before it was undone, or possibly even the last one before humanity was wiped out entirely by the lingering effects of it.

That's one thing we don't know about. We know that the land didn't seem to start recovering from the 8th calamity after it having been 200 years since the rejoining. Yet we don't know how long it took civilization to recover enough to start planning on the next one. We do know however that taking land out of the passive nature of Light does take some time if the Empty taught us anything. And that was just after 100 years. It would be interesting to see if anyone would have thought to try something akin to what we did with Eden if it would be possible to do. But then there seemed to still be fighting over land. Which is somewhat reasonable if a large swath of land wasn't suitable to be used as farm land. I don't think the Ascians really thought of what passivity would look like let alone how powerful it would be when combined with something that was already fairly strong in that vein that Black Rose was.

[Kesey]

It wasn't even from within the game, just from early promotional stuff for Shadowbringers.

There was never any hint in the game, so far as I recall, that either the Ascians or the Scions saw any significance in the eighth Rejoining as a turning point in the process. Again, that's just what fans speculated might be the reason why the devs hinted that it would be the last.

As it turned out, that "eighth and final" calamity was the particularly catastrophic Black Rose event, which (at least at the time they said it) they may have intended to mean either the last calamity in that timeline before it was undone, or possibly even the last one before humanity was wiped out entirely by the lingering effects of it.

In the Heavensward post patches, you speak with Minifilia/Hydaelyn who has now become the Word of the Mother, and here she explains that she has failed to stop the 7 previous calamities/rejoinings and you can't let them do it once more because she won't have the energy. So the basic idea is in place pretty early in the story, granted not as fleshed out as we come to understand in Shadowbringers.

[Cleretic]

In the Heavensward post patches, you speak with Minifilia/Hydaelyn who has now become the Word of the Mother, and here she explains that she has failed to stop the 7 previous calamities/rejoinings and you can't let them do it once more because she won't have the energy. So the basic idea is in place pretty early in the story, granted not as fleshed out as we come to understand in Shadowbringers.

Nope, she actually didn't, I just checked! (Behold, the power of 'hoarding a pointless stockpile of recorded cutscenes just in case they can be used as relevant B-roll') However, I can see exactly where this idea came.

Zodiark longeth to be made whole. For His restoration, for His resurrection, His servants labor without cease. They seek to tear down the barriers which surround the Source.
Thus do they rejoice in their Ardor--in your calamities--for each marks a Rejoining.
Seven times have they succeeded. Seven times hath the Darkness grown stronger. Seven times have I failed.
The Ascians cannot be suffered to continue. This...this is my final...
<Hydaelynfilia clutches herself in pain, earthquake-ey effects>
The Crystal's power is all but spent. With what remains, I will return you to the shore of the aetherial sea.

She never finishes the sentence. It's not clear what this is the 'final' of at all, because she immediately gets distracted by circumstance and pivots to goodbyes. There's a lot of ways she could've ended that make sense now that we know her whole story, but it could've been anything from the dramatic 'final wish' or 'final task' to even just something as relatively innocuous as 'final message' or 'final warning'.

This actually reminds me of a debate around A Link To The Past; Link's uncle tells him to go seek Zelda, saying 'she is your...' before getting cut off by dying. And I am not kidding or exaggerating when I say that the debate about that one line went on for DECADES (I stumbled across it still going when Wind Waker was new I believe), with so many people misremembering that he did finish the sentence; I think there was a prevailing theory that he was going to say 'sister'. To this day we still don't know.

[Picker]

I think golbez will be our reflection and we will kill him/her in 6.4 and zero will be revealed to have caused the flood of darkness and is in fact zeromus and we kill him/her in 6.5 and rejoin the 13th without a calamity or something. Then Final fantasy 16 is the story of the 13ths fall and leads right into ff17, the next mmo and direct sequel to 14; where you start out in meracydia and the 14 wol and scions show up to meddle and are the antagonists

[sidurgu-12]

I think golbez will be our reflection and we will kill him/her in 6.4 and zero will be revealed to have caused the flood of darkness and is in fact zeromus and we kill him/her in 6.5 and rejoin the 13th without a calamity or something. Then Final fantasy 16 is the story of the 13ths fall and leads right into ff17, the next mmo and direct sequel to 14; where you start out in meracydia and the 14 wol and scions show up to meddle and are the antagonists

Given the zero flashback i dont think shed be the cause.