Can we have an official response on the RMT sub FC farms?

[Leathium]

I've talked with some of these house hoarders and submarine barons before. Half of them are uber capitalists who love being rich and the other half are trolls who enjoy depriving people of something. That's it. Its that simple. Selfish and/or petty people. Not everything is RMT.

How is that even a good thing to defend? it makes no sense finding that a "normal" thing to do as "That's it no biggie they are just trolling you all and being selfish, exploiting and cheating the housing system griefing you all, let them be, move on and drop the topic, don't try to discuss or find better solutions to it, just drop it!" It's the bank robbery example again.

The difference between you and SE is that SE requires proof.

What proof? if I suspect someone is abusing or cheating the intended system in any content, all I can do as a player is report it to them, and they will investigate it and "find proofs", I'm not required to be IT expert and tell them how is something in their game is being abused and exploited.

[Elevin]

OP, why you blame us innocent sub farmers for an issue created by people who buy gold?

For a start, it takes quite literally several months to level a submarine to be viable for the alleged gil farm. The subs that are required for it cost 80-100m if bought from a player, and no doubt almost that in materials. I wouldn't know as I personally gathered the materials for all mine.

It would probably be a year after starting submarines before you see a return on investment from that.

SE should be implementing severe penalties for those that buy gil.

[Elevin]

Just had a look at a gold selling website and Jesus, I can guarantee you that they aren't making the gil from submarines since they'd just about break even on a single account with 1 FC. They'd need multiple characters across multiple worlds and DCs with a year of investment initially in each FC to make it a viable business. Plus, gold sellers wouldn't be that brazen to have a bunch of FCs with the same name on the same ward as that's just asking to be investigated.

You should go crusade somewhere else like against the people that buy gold in the first place. They are the ones creating the demand knowing that it is against T&Cs.

[CatStarwind]

OP, why you blame us innocent sub farmers for an issue created by people who buy gold?

I didn't blame anyone, just that it's liable for abuse. Which...

[QUOTE=Elevin;6175581]For a start, it takes quite literally several months to level a submarine to be viable for the alleged gil farm.[\QUOTE]

It would probably be a year after starting submarines before you see a return on investment from that.

you agree with.

SE should be implementing severe penalties for those that buy gil.

And I agree with this.

[Elevin]

[QUOTE=CatStarwind;6175611]I didn't blame anyone, just that it's liable for abuse. Which...

For a start, it takes quite literally several months to level a submarine to be viable for the alleged gil farm.[\QUOTE]


you agree with.


And I agree with this.

It really isn't liable for abuse because it's such an unviable option for anyone seeking to make money off of RMT. The value of gil is so little compared to real life money, combined with the fact that it's a fixed amount means that as inflation in FF14 increases, the submarines become less and less of a viable option if it were even viable in the first place to generate gil. It would also either require buying up Free Companies for RMT which again, would be an immediate and large cost to anyone to then consolidate the FCs into one account. With the current system, it's not even a viable option to do that.

You have no evidence that Submarines are generating gil for RMT. You haven't thought about this logically at all it seems since just a few minutes of research shows just how inefficient this option is since people looking for RMT are running it as a business. A month of sub farming wouldn't even cover my subscription+retainer costs with 1 FC, and then try getting more than 1 FC on your account and see the lengths you have to go to.

Think logically about this and go complain on the general forums about all the gathering bots there are. There was 1 bot that EVERYONE on my server new the name of during SHB that was just farming collectables constantly apparently for several months or more... Gathering bots, Eureka bots, all the bots under the map are the ones that are the culprits. Gathering bots generate the gil by selling mats to other players. Eureka bots sell items to other players to generate the gil and so on and so forth. Literally came across a party of 8 bots levelling in the first zone of Eureka once.

[PaalHenrik]

How is that even a good thing to defend? it makes no sense finding that a "normal" thing to do as "That's it no biggie they are just trolling you all and being selfish, exploiting and cheating the housing system griefing you all, let them be, move on and drop the topic, don't try to discuss or find better solutions to it, just drop it!" It's the bank robbery example again.



What proof? if I suspect someone is abusing or cheating the intended system in any content, all I can do as a player is report it to them, and they will investigate it and "find proofs", I'm not required to be IT expert and tell them how is something in their game is being abused and exploited.

If someone is harassing you in game, you have to provide the chat logs, the time/date, where it occurred. SE doesn't have to do any investigation based on someone's suspicions.

[PaalHenrik]

[QUOTE=Elevin;6175664]

I didn't blame anyone, just that it's liable for abuse. Which...



It really isn't liable for abuse because it's such an unviable option for anyone seeking to make money off of RMT. The value of gil is so little compared to real life money, combined with the fact that it's a fixed amount means that as inflation in FF14 increases, the submarines become less and less of a viable option if it were even viable in the first place to generate gil. It would also either require buying up Free Companies for RMT which again, would be an immediate and large cost to anyone to then consolidate the FCs into one account. With the current system, it's not even a viable option to do that.

You have no evidence that Submarines are generating gil for RMT. You haven't thought about this logically at all it seems since just a few minutes of research shows just how inefficient this option is since people looking for RMT are running it as a business. A month of sub farming wouldn't even cover my subscription+retainer costs with 1 FC, and then try getting more than 1 FC on your account and see the lengths you have to go to.

Think logically about this and go complain on the general forums about all the gathering bots there are. There was 1 bot that EVERYONE on my server new the name of during SHB that was just farming collectables constantly apparently for several months or more... Gathering bots, Eureka bots, all the bots under the map are the ones that are the culprits. Gathering bots generate the gil by selling mats to other players. Eureka bots sell items to other players to generate the gil and so on and so forth. Literally came across a party of 8 bots levelling in the first zone of Eureka once.

Let's add on to that. Multi-owners > submersibles > must be RMT. There are people who craft submersible parts for those who don't want to. They therefore also contribute to the supposed RMT submersible farms. Let's ban crafting and workshops now.

[Leathium]

You have no evidence that Submarines are generating gil for RMT. You haven't thought about this logically at all it seems since just a few minutes of research shows just how inefficient this option is since people looking for RMT are running it as a business. A month of sub farming wouldn't even cover my subscription+retainer costs with 1 FC, and then try getting more than 1 FC on your account and see the lengths you have to go to.

How would you even know how those sub farmers think or intention? I seen crazy things in FF14 as people run alts to make a dance party somewhere or some RP scene to make a wall of weird ROEs in some town with having names as Player One, Player Two, etc. How can you tell at least some of those sub farmers NOT participating in RMT? it all looks suspicious and ugly to see someone hoard half a ward for their selves and be like "I made this for the LULz".

If someone is harassing you in game, you have to provide the chat logs, the time/date, where it occurred. SE doesn't have to do any investigation based on someone's suspicions.

SE never provide any information related to your report, they will tell you, they will investigate it, and deal with it, and will never notify you if the person you are reporting is punished or not, same as one time I had this random weird lalafell person who just always hangs in my house, whenever I login they are either crafting inside my house, or just sleeping inside my house bed and afk there, regardless of me asking them to stop being like that they never stopped, I dont mind visitors that come in to have a tour and hang out a bit and go, but someone been almost all the time in my house, I simply reported the person for "stalking and being nuisance" A couple days later the person stopped coming to my house, I didn't provide anything else the player name, no chat logs, no time of when, and simply complained about it, All I could assume they were told to quit annoying me or warned that can be punished or whatever, the person probably was a fan? probably loved my house decoration so much? Wanted to be a friend to me so badly? didn't know any of that because that said person never replied or said anything to me, when I told them to stop camping my house, if you really think SE will require me to provide technical report as if I was some IT expert, you need to consider the intelligence of FF14 community in general, NO ONE GOT TIME FOR THAT.

[Elevin]

How would you even know how those sub farmers think or intention? I seen crazy things in FF14 as people run alts to make a dance party somewhere or some RP scene to make a wall of weird ROEs in some town with having names as Player One, Player Two, etc. How can you tell at least some of those sub farmers NOT participating in RMT? it all looks suspicious and ugly to see someone hoard half a ward for their selves and be like "I made this for the LULz".

IF, and that's a big IF it's even a thing, then it's only affecting a tiny amount of worlds and only a few wards at that. On average you get like 500k every 2 days per FC. For a single account, on 1 world with 8 FCs, that's 4m per day. Now for my server at least at the prices i'm looking at, it's like $4 or about. So that's say $120 a month from one account worth of gold... on top of the other prior issues to get an FC and FC house currently. Then you have the issue that you literally have a bunch of FCs tied to a single account with significant time investment (a year before there is a return on investment) that which gets banned means that investment is completely gone. It's completely illogical for any gold farming business to use FCs when there are faster and less risk averse ways to generate gil.

In conclusion, those wards likely owned by 1 player are for personal use and to annoy everyone else around that they own a ward to themselves before there were any restrictions in place on housing.

[PaalHenrik]

How would you even know how those sub farmers think or intention? I seen crazy things in FF14 as people run alts to make a dance party somewhere or some RP scene to make a wall of weird ROEs in some town with having names as Player One, Player Two, etc. How can you tell at least some of those sub farmers NOT participating in RMT? it all looks suspicious and ugly to see someone hoard half a ward for their selves and be like "I made this for the LULz".



SE never provide any information related to your report, they will tell you, they will investigate it, and deal with it, and will never notify you if the person you are reporting is punished or not, same as one time I had this random weird lalafell person who just always hangs in my house, whenever I login they are either crafting inside my house, or just sleeping inside my house bed and afk there, regardless of me asking them to stop being like that they never stopped, I dont mind visitors that come in to have a tour and hang out a bit and go, but someone been almost all the time in my house, I simply reported the person for "stalking and being nuisance" A couple days later the person stopped coming to my house, I didn't provide anything else the player name, no chat logs, no time of when, and simply complained about it, All I could assume they were told to quit annoying me or warned that can be punished or whatever, the person probably was a fan? probably loved my house decoration so much? Wanted to be a friend to me so badly? didn't know any of that because that said person never replied or said anything to me, when I told them to stop camping my house, if you really think SE will require me to provide technical report as if I was some IT expert, you need to consider the intelligence of FF14 community in general, NO ONE GOT TIME FOR THAT.

They don't ask you for IT level expertise. Copy pasting or explaining a situation so they can then go on to investigate it is the only thing required.