Level 100 and Beyond

[Amenara]

I think this is exaggerated. Other RPG's have much higher level caps, some Tales of games go all the way to 200 and take a lot of grind to get there. I think if base game + 6 or 7 expansions wouldn't put someone off, then I don't think a Lv110 or 120 level cap would - irrespective of story that number of expansions implies that there is a lot of content to work through. I'd even go as far as to assume that most people who see a game that has 6 or 7 expansions to expect and understand why the level cap is high.

The easy example I would give to counter you is WoW. They went to 120 and said, this is daunting for new players and takes way too much time to go through to get to the content that matters in WoW at least. FFXIV already has a reputation for how much time is required to go through the game to get to max level and I think there is a breaking point that we are coming up to where it just becomes untenable and is going to require a level squish and or story squish.

[Tiramu]

The easy example I would give to counter you is WoW. They went to 120 and said, this is daunting for new players and takes way too much time to go through to get to the content that matters in WoW at least.

The BIB is the most important part of your post. FFXIV and WoW are completely different games with a difference focus. XIV is a story dense game, it's sold as such and what it's best known for. Unlike WoW, endgame raiding is just another thing you can do, and not *the* thing you do.

FFXIV already has a reputation for how much time is required to go through the game to get to max level and I think there is a breaking point that we are coming up to where it just becomes untenable and is going to require a level squish and or story squish.

As I pointed out in my edit, the time required to get to max level has little to do with levelling pace and everything to do with progressing through the story content. You can hit level cap before you've hit Heavensward on a preferential server without breaking a sweat and there is no way they're going to do a story squish. Maybe streamline stuff that's a bit bloaty but not a squish.

This isn't necessarily known by people who haven't tried the game yet though, and perceptions of the game alone are enough to deter them from trying it. I've seen a lot of people who didn't try the game earlier because of one perception or another and breaking down false perceptions from every angle is what any company should want to do to grow their product/service. Some people may inquire as to the speed of getting to that level and not be deterred, but some people might be deterred by it, for example someone looking to get to the endgame quickly probably isn't going to be encouraged by such a high level cap.

This is as much in response to Amenara as you. If a new player is going to be put off by the amount of content they need to progress through (whether thats to reach endgame or to finish the story) then its much more likely the 6+ expansions we'll have by the time we get to a post Lv100 cap than the level cap itself. If they do take a punt at the game, its the story and not the levelling that's going to have them either bailing out or buying a skip.

[Deveryn]

As I pointed out in my edit, the time required to get to max level has little to do with levelling pace and everything to do with progressing through the story content. You can hit level cap before you've hit Heavensward on a preferential server without breaking a sweat and there is no way they're going to do a story squish. Maybe streamline stuff that's a bit bloaty but not a squish.

There won't be a story squish, but there might be a skip. 7.0 begins a brand new saga, so it's possible that new people will be able to jump in at that point, if they choose (for free).

[Tiramu]

There won't be a story squish, but there might be a skip. 7.0 begins a brand new saga, so it's possible that new people will be able to jump in at that point, if they choose (for free).

There are already skips, but yes they might have a free story skip to start the new saga. In that case those players will see that they can skip to the new expansion and start at Lv90 upfront.

[Amenara]

The BIB is the most important part of your post. FFXIV and WoW are completely different games with a difference focus. XIV is a story dense game, it's sold as such and what it's best known for. Unlike WoW, endgame raiding is just another thing you can do, and not *the* thing you do.

As I pointed out in my edit, the time required to get to max level has little to do with levelling pace and everything to do with progressing through the story content. You can hit level cap before you've hit Heavensward on a preferential server without breaking a sweat and there is no way they're going to do a story squish. Maybe streamline stuff that's a bit bloaty but not a squish.

This is as much in response to Amenara as you. If a new player is going to be put off by the amount of content they need to progress through (whether thats to reach endgame or to finish the story) then its much more likely the 6+ expansions we'll have by the time we get to a post Lv100 cap than the level cap itself. If they do take a punt at the game, its the story and not the levelling that's going to have them either bailing out or buying a skip.

To you, an experienced max level player adding 10 levels to your current level isn't a big deal, nor is doing another 30 hours of story to complete the expansion's x.0 MSQ. To someone from the outside looking in, they see 120 levels of content they have to get through to on top of the already daunting story and it is just bad optics to people who might want to try the game out for the first time. That is more or less the point I was trying to make with the WoW level comparison to the FFXIV level comparison. The idea behind the WoW squish is that it takes way too long for new players to get through the leveling process and needed to be cut down to make it less daunting. We are already headed down that path in FFXIV with the required MSQ taking hundreds of hours to complete.

There won't be a story squish, but there might be a skip. 7.0 begins a brand new saga, so it's possible that new people will be able to jump in at that point, if they choose (for free).

That combined with a level squish at some point I think will be in the future.

[Deveryn]

That combined with a level squish at some point I think will be in the future.

I don't know about that. Yoshida's already said he'd like to see things stop at 100 and find a different way to handle progression. We already have alternate level systems in the game (Eureka / Bozja), so they could potentially expand on that. That's a good 3 years away though.

[Amenara]

I don't know about that. Yoshida's already said he'd like to see things stop at 100 and find a different way to handle progression. We already have alternate level systems in the game (Eureka / Bozja), so they could potentially expand on that. That's a good 3 years away though.

If we stopped at level 100 I wouldn't be opposed to them completely revamping the gearing/stat system and head down the path of job levels and master levels or something similar that FFXI has. The amount of work that would entail to change the entire structure of the game's progression would probably be insane but who knows. I just honestly don't see them doing it because of the workload involved and still needing players to have a feeling of progression on their characters.

There are already skips, but yes they might have a free story skip to start the new saga. In that case those players will see that they can skip to the new expansion and start at Lv90 upfront.

I would be fine with them giving players that option.

[Tiramu]

I don't know about that. Yoshida's already said he'd like to see things stop at 100 and find a different way to handle progression. We already have alternate level systems in the game (Eureka / Bozja), so they could potentially expand on that. That's a good 3 years away though.

He has? In the last live letter he said that the next expansion would have a Lv100 cap and they're reviewing all options with levels after that point. He hasn't said he wants to stop at 100.

[Deveryn]

He has? In the last live letter he said that the next expansion would have a Lv100 cap and they're reviewing all options with levels after that point. He hasn't said he wants to stop at 100.

He made some commentary during the patch reading about going beyond level 100 and is concerned about simply going to 110 after that.

[DPZ2]

To someone from the outside looking in, they see 120 levels of content they have to get through to on top of the already daunting story and it is just bad optics to people who might want to try the game out for the first time.

The story is the [currently] 90 levels of content. You do not have to do a single other thing in-game to complete both. The amount of time to get from 1 to max-level may seem long, but ... You may not lose that 'sprout' icon until you're nearly done with the story. I believe it's currently something like 180 hours of gameplay to lose that icon. Five months at 10 hours a week of gameplay.

Time in game is, after all, the basis for nearly every MMORPG.