Level 100 and Beyond

[Jeeqbit]

They can just, you know, go above 100. It's just a number, it literally doesn't matter.

It matters because when you research the game to see if you want to play it and you see "level 120" it can put you off. 120 implies it will take a lot of time. The story already has that effect, but a lot of people don't understand just how long the story actually is until they are a quarter of the way in and still nowhere near the end. If they see a number like that, they may not even try the story in the first place.

[Tiramu]

It matters because when you research the game to see if you want to play it and you see "level 120" it can put you off. 120 implies it will take a lot of time. The story already has that effect, but a lot of people don't understand just how long the story actually is until they are a quarter of the way in and still nowhere near the end. If they see a number like that, they may not even try the story in the first place.

I think this is exaggerated. Other RPG's have much higher level caps, some Tales of games go all the way to 200 and take a lot of grind to get there. I think if base game + 6 or 7 expansions wouldn't put someone off, then I don't think a Lv110 or 120 level cap would - irrespective of story that number of expansions implies that there is a lot of content to work through. I'd even go as far as to assume that most people who see a game that has 6 or 7 expansions to expect and understand why the level cap is high.

Also, for people who might only be interested in the endgame, they can always buy the skip.


ETA:
I'd also add that new players are often funnelled towards preferential servers. I'm on Raiden and the amount of sprouts who haven't even reached Heavensward but have Lv90 jobs is crazy. We have several in our FC. The EXP buff is so strong that if you're levelling one job, doing your job quests and consistently buggering about with a even a small amount of side content (like, your hunting log and random blue quests, maybe a few roulettes or something. Not some serious grind) then you'll ding 90 before you've seen Ishgard. The point I'm making here is that while new players can underestimate how story dense FFXIV is, the story is far denser than the levelling experience.

[Amenara]

I think this is exaggerated. Other RPG's have much higher level caps, some Tales of games go all the way to 200 and take a lot of grind to get there. I think if base game + 6 or 7 expansions wouldn't put someone off, then I don't think a Lv110 or 120 level cap would - irrespective of story that number of expansions implies that there is a lot of content to work through. I'd even go as far as to assume that most people who see a game that has 6 or 7 expansions to expect and understand why the level cap is high.

The easy example I would give to counter you is WoW. They went to 120 and said, this is daunting for new players and takes way too much time to go through to get to the content that matters in WoW at least. FFXIV already has a reputation for how much time is required to go through the game to get to max level and I think there is a breaking point that we are coming up to where it just becomes untenable and is going to require a level squish and or story squish.

[Tiramu]

The easy example I would give to counter you is WoW. They went to 120 and said, this is daunting for new players and takes way too much time to go through to get to the content that matters in WoW at least.

The BIB is the most important part of your post. FFXIV and WoW are completely different games with a difference focus. XIV is a story dense game, it's sold as such and what it's best known for. Unlike WoW, endgame raiding is just another thing you can do, and not *the* thing you do.

FFXIV already has a reputation for how much time is required to go through the game to get to max level and I think there is a breaking point that we are coming up to where it just becomes untenable and is going to require a level squish and or story squish.

As I pointed out in my edit, the time required to get to max level has little to do with levelling pace and everything to do with progressing through the story content. You can hit level cap before you've hit Heavensward on a preferential server without breaking a sweat and there is no way they're going to do a story squish. Maybe streamline stuff that's a bit bloaty but not a squish.

This isn't necessarily known by people who haven't tried the game yet though, and perceptions of the game alone are enough to deter them from trying it. I've seen a lot of people who didn't try the game earlier because of one perception or another and breaking down false perceptions from every angle is what any company should want to do to grow their product/service. Some people may inquire as to the speed of getting to that level and not be deterred, but some people might be deterred by it, for example someone looking to get to the endgame quickly probably isn't going to be encouraged by such a high level cap.

This is as much in response to Amenara as you. If a new player is going to be put off by the amount of content they need to progress through (whether thats to reach endgame or to finish the story) then its much more likely the 6+ expansions we'll have by the time we get to a post Lv100 cap than the level cap itself. If they do take a punt at the game, its the story and not the levelling that's going to have them either bailing out or buying a skip.

[Deveryn]

As I pointed out in my edit, the time required to get to max level has little to do with levelling pace and everything to do with progressing through the story content. You can hit level cap before you've hit Heavensward on a preferential server without breaking a sweat and there is no way they're going to do a story squish. Maybe streamline stuff that's a bit bloaty but not a squish.

There won't be a story squish, but there might be a skip. 7.0 begins a brand new saga, so it's possible that new people will be able to jump in at that point, if they choose (for free).

[Tiramu]

There won't be a story squish, but there might be a skip. 7.0 begins a brand new saga, so it's possible that new people will be able to jump in at that point, if they choose (for free).

There are already skips, but yes they might have a free story skip to start the new saga. In that case those players will see that they can skip to the new expansion and start at Lv90 upfront.

[Amenara]

The BIB is the most important part of your post. FFXIV and WoW are completely different games with a difference focus. XIV is a story dense game, it's sold as such and what it's best known for. Unlike WoW, endgame raiding is just another thing you can do, and not *the* thing you do.

As I pointed out in my edit, the time required to get to max level has little to do with levelling pace and everything to do with progressing through the story content. You can hit level cap before you've hit Heavensward on a preferential server without breaking a sweat and there is no way they're going to do a story squish. Maybe streamline stuff that's a bit bloaty but not a squish.

This is as much in response to Amenara as you. If a new player is going to be put off by the amount of content they need to progress through (whether thats to reach endgame or to finish the story) then its much more likely the 6+ expansions we'll have by the time we get to a post Lv100 cap than the level cap itself. If they do take a punt at the game, its the story and not the levelling that's going to have them either bailing out or buying a skip.

To you, an experienced max level player adding 10 levels to your current level isn't a big deal, nor is doing another 30 hours of story to complete the expansion's x.0 MSQ. To someone from the outside looking in, they see 120 levels of content they have to get through to on top of the already daunting story and it is just bad optics to people who might want to try the game out for the first time. That is more or less the point I was trying to make with the WoW level comparison to the FFXIV level comparison. The idea behind the WoW squish is that it takes way too long for new players to get through the leveling process and needed to be cut down to make it less daunting. We are already headed down that path in FFXIV with the required MSQ taking hundreds of hours to complete.

There won't be a story squish, but there might be a skip. 7.0 begins a brand new saga, so it's possible that new people will be able to jump in at that point, if they choose (for free).

That combined with a level squish at some point I think will be in the future.

[Deveryn]

That combined with a level squish at some point I think will be in the future.

I don't know about that. Yoshida's already said he'd like to see things stop at 100 and find a different way to handle progression. We already have alternate level systems in the game (Eureka / Bozja), so they could potentially expand on that. That's a good 3 years away though.

[DPZ2]

To someone from the outside looking in, they see 120 levels of content they have to get through to on top of the already daunting story and it is just bad optics to people who might want to try the game out for the first time.

The story is the [currently] 90 levels of content. You do not have to do a single other thing in-game to complete both. The amount of time to get from 1 to max-level may seem long, but ... You may not lose that 'sprout' icon until you're nearly done with the story. I believe it's currently something like 180 hours of gameplay to lose that icon. Five months at 10 hours a week of gameplay.

Time in game is, after all, the basis for nearly every MMORPG.