Please add damage meters, Yoshi P.

[LianaThorne]

It's not my responsibility to make other people be worth a party slot

Good thing what one person views as worthy is different to the next.

Hence why I'm glad the devs don't always let decisions rest in our hands. Game is better without the toxicity that is trying to be pushed in here.

If you genuinely just want people to improve and have the motivation to do it, you wouldn't have rejected the compromise idea. We both know you just want to see the numbers and remove anyone who doesn't fit your own expectations.

[FireMage]

Good thing what one person views as worthy is different to the next.

This is simply not true, there is objective value, it's called your numbers

[LianaThorne]

This is simply not true, there is objective value, it's called your numbers

Good thing numbers only matter to a specific crowd in this game that doesn't make up the majority.

Or are we really going to have the 25% completion rate argument again?

Edit: Actually, put a pin in that for the future. I gotta go to work and get my day going. Lol. Thanks for my morning entertainment again.

[raelgun]

Slippery Slope is not a fallacy and one concession to overly meritocratic approach to game will eventually lead to more and more concessions until we reach a point where FFXIV becomes another WoW and videos like this can be made about FFXIV:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKP1I7IocYU

Am I being hyperbolic and paranoid? Perhaps from an outside point of view, but I've been on both sides of the curtain and I'd much rather deal with FFXIV toxic casualism that ultimately compels me to spam /beesknees in a fc club rather than deal with WoW's toxic elitism that ultimately compels me to turn a hobby into a job.

So you rather support the environment of sexual harrassment then, something that is rampant in ff14

[FireMage]

Good thing numbers only matter to a specific crowd in this game that doesn't make up the majority.

Numbers (like politics) matter to everyone, graylet, whether you think they do or not

[raelgun]

Good thing what one person views as worthy is different to the next.

Hence why I'm glad the devs don't always let decisions rest in our hands. Game is better without the toxicity that is trying to be pushed in here.

If you genuinely just want people to improve and have the motivation to do it, you wouldn't have rejected the compromise idea. We both know you just want to see the numbers and remove anyone who doesn't fit your own expectations.

The game already has toxicity and a much more frequent cases of sexual harrassment among the players but of course you lot will ignore that because DPS numbers hurt more

[Estecka]

Not acceptable, have to be able to see who the dead weight is

"Who it is" and not "when there is one".
Have you had such bad luck that you consistently struggle to form a party capable of clearing group content? Or is "Dead Weight" just your word for whomever has the lowest dps contribution?

Wrong. They're necessary in any and all group content. People should be allowed to know if they're carrying so they may take action.

Carrying implies that you were able to clear the content nevertheless; in those lower tier content, this most likely means their never was a need to take action, especially for the kind of carrying that requires a parser to detect.
Or is "Carry" simply your word for whomever has the highest dps contribution?

Part of me wants to hope this is all just a maladroitous phrasing, but at this point I half expect you to say that every party has an Alpha and an Omega, and that the former always has the right to banish the later, regardless of whether they can clear the content.

[ForteNightshade]

Extremes can be muscled through even with deaths so personally I don't see the need. Savages and Ultimates are where having deaths will literally end your run.

As far as them not showing it, the most likely reason is because of potential harassment that they probably aren't able to handle in a reasonable amount of time. I can easily see hundreds of more reports coming in just for people abusing the parser to harass others.

To be fair, a good amount of those reports will be people crying harassment over the slightest amount of criticism. A healer being told to DPS, a DRG being called out (even politely) for low damage or a tank not mitigating properly.

Which segues into the actual reason the dev team dislikes parsers: to coddle those aforementioned types of players. They don't want someone to feel bad for poor performance even at the Savage level.

Carrying implies that you were able to clear the content nevertheless, which most likely means their never was a need to take action.
Or is "Carry" simply your word for whomever has the highest dps contribution?

I loathe that you're making me partial agree with FireMage but this isn't a good argument.

Just because you were able to clear content doesn't mean someone else wasn't carried. A carry typically refers to someone woefully underperforming to the point other people picked up the slack to compensate. You can technically clear P5S with one healer literally never touching any DPS ability. Would you find that acceptable? After all, you did still clear. The difference is everyone else had to make up for their non-existent damage and likely saw additional mechanics which could be skipped. Now that's a more extreme scenario but a "carry" isn't just numbers but can come in the form of mechanical consistency. If they're frequently dying but never enough to cause wipes, they're still being woefully outperformed and making it harder on the team.

Lower DPS doesn't necessary mean a carry either. It's when the difference is staggering and noticeable. If a Dragoon is out-damaging a Samurai but both are still high on the list, then you can easily attribute that to potential gear differential or skill. Now if a Dancer is out-damaging either one of them, we have cause for concern. Context is important here.

Nevertheless, this really only applies to EX and up. Sure, everyone should try to perform reasonably well in all content but the standards for a dungeon run are significantly lower than Savage.

[Estecka]

Agreed, I have made a generalisation that might not always apply to savage and EX. But Firemage said himself that a dps meter is also relevant to casual content, where I'm absolutely unbothered by people having lower performances, and am actually quite happy when I feel like I might be carrying.
Gonna edit my previous message to try and make things more clear on that point.

However I never said that no one was carrying if there's a clear; on the contrary, I meant that it requires a clear to be considered carrying.

[CosmicCoqui]

The way some people act in regards to wanting the meter in game, shows pretty much yoshi and team is correct in not adding it in the first place. Would just cause more elitism and division then there already is when it comes to raiding.