Is PLD actually weaker than before?

[Eliroth-Kaminari]

Well lets say this way:
Pre rework: pld aDPS was 500 dps lower then counterparts. that is 500 DPS missing in end no mather will it end up on dancer dps or stays on tanks but that was that 500dps that was missing in clearing first week savage. even if rdps on pld was equal to other tanks.
post rework pld is 100-200 adps bihind what is alot betther in that sense that there is less reason to gatekeep pld because it dont contribute enogh in killing boss.

Dont forget that pld new defensive and divine vail change adds 2 useful mitigation to pld kit(yes i think old veil was useless)/yes passage is not as useful then gimic and cover and shield counter is waste of space in skillbar but atleast we go right direction here.

In additionally pld Shelton/intervention is free and i think one fastest regenerating one so pld is tanky it self and it can add +1 mitigation/yes other tanks can share mitigation aswell but they share cooldown for they own midigation/ on off tank now that Sqenx love double busters so much it is useful.

in rotation part i like new one more even if old one felt braindead simple for me new one is nothing impossible to learn (yes 2 dropped atonement is sad)<- sqenix might improve that in 7.0 or some point but core rotation is simple (tho it reminds me gnb issue abit because for some stupid reason my ogcd skills colide whit tankbuster timenigs more then i like )

[Mikey_R]

in rotation part i like new one more even if old one felt braindead simple for me new one is nothing impossible to learn (yes 2 dropped atonement is sad)

You do NOT need to drop atonements for optimal damage. You can do whatever you want in the extra 3 GCDs in FoF and it makes no difference (assuming you follow the priority, which assumes NO setup when going into FoF).

[Absurdity]

You do NOT need to drop atonements for optimal damage. You can do whatever you want in the extra 3 GCDs in FoF and it makes no difference (assuming you follow the priority, which assumes NO setup when going into FoF).

I'll just post the balance graphic, maybe people will get it then.

[Hanayumi]

Folks expected them to hit the nail dead on in 1 go? Yall know better, they always tweek things constantly...

[Absurdity]

Folks expected them to hit the nail dead on in 1 go? Yall know better, they always tweek things constantly...

I mean sure, they've been tweaking warrior constantly since 4.2, and managed to make it even worse every time.

[Cabalabob]

I'll just post the balance graphic, maybe people will get it then.

Looks like someone glanced at PLD skills and just threw something barebones together to come up with that. You can get 2 DM holy spirits into the FoF window after the opener if you set up properly and you can start FoF a GCD earlier than that opener since royal and atonement have the same potency.

If you just start the rotation and use whatever is available you could be missing out on almost an entire atonement’s worth of potency in your FoF window every rotation.

[Absurdity]

Looks like someone glanced at PLD skills and just threw something barebones together to come up with that. You can get 2 DM holy spirits into the FoF window after the opener if you set up properly and you can start FoF a GCD earlier than that opener since royal and atonement have the same potency.

If you just start the rotation and use whatever is available you could be missing out on almost an entire atonement’s worth of potency in your FoF window every rotation.

The first thing it tells you is to use DM Holy Spirit before your next Royal Authority, they basically just expect you to think for yourself and figure out that you can go into FoF with Holy Spirit and your combo on Royal, do your Confiteor combo and have 3 GCDs left to do HS -> RA -> HS under FoF.

As for why you use FoF after Royal Authority should be pretty obvious, to catch raid buffs. Battle Litany, Battle Voice, Embolden, Chain Stratagem, Divination and I believe Technical Step don't go out until after the 3rd GCD.

[Cabalabob]

they basically just expect you to think for yourself and figure out that you can go into FoF with Holy Spirit and your combo on Royal, do your Confiteor combo and have 3 GCDs left to do HS -> RA -> HS under FoF.

But that’s the point. To go into your burst with DM and RA primed you need to drop atonements for it to align with FoF so you need to be 2 GCDs ahead to make sure you’re ready when FoF comes off CD.

If you just start FoF whenever it’s ready without any setup then you won’t have RA primed and you’ll end up wasting GCDs on fast blade and riot blade and won’t have enough GCDs in FoF to use RA and a second DM HS.

[Mikey_R]

But that’s the point. To go into your burst with DM and RA primed you need to drop atonements for it to align with FoF so you need to be 2 GCDs ahead to make sure you’re ready when FoF comes off CD.

If you just start FoF whenever it’s ready without any setup then you won’t have RA primed and you’ll end up wasting GCDs on fast blade and riot blade and won’t have enough GCDs in FoF to use RA and a second DM HS.

Its been mathed out AND proven in parses that it makes no difference.

In the 2 Divine Holy Spirit combo, you drop 2 Atonements every minute, this is 760 potency you are just throwing away, however, with the rotation where you follow a priority system, since you use those 2 Atonements, you will gain potency as you do less Fast Blades/Riot Blades.

I done some very basic maths not that long ago and comparing the potency of the FoF window (including the 2 GCDs before) between the 2DHS and the worst case scenario (DHS, Fast, Riot in FoF), you lose ~160 potency, but you gain it back over the rest of the rotation and, whilst I done maths on that as well, it came to a 20 potency difference, which is effectively ~1% of your burst window average, even lower when you tale the rest of the rotation in a minute into account.

You have to bear in mind, The Balance started with the 2 DHS and 5 hard cast HS rotations, and it was found out AFTER that that if you just do things as they come up, you basically lose nothing.

If you want to criticise, or think that isn't the case, test it out yourself. You don't even technically need a parser, just use SSS and it can give you a rough estimate which should be close enough to the results expected.

[nia_saeli]

But that’s the point. To go into your burst with DM and RA primed you need to drop atonements for it to align with FoF so you need to be 2 GCDs ahead to make sure you’re ready when FoF comes off CD.

If you just start FoF whenever it’s ready without any setup then you won’t have RA primed and you’ll end up wasting GCDs on fast blade and riot blade and won’t have enough GCDs in FoF to use RA and a second DM HS.

In summary: It's not so easy to judge whether you should or shouldn't drop atonements. The gains of setting up are super small at best and you'd need a spreadsheet to figure out whether or not dropping the atonements is actually a gain because the damage between filler abilities is just too close to tell otherwise.

The beautiful thing about the PLD rotation is that the filler GCDs are all so close that not doing the setup may actually be a gain.

- Worst Filler - Fast -> Riot -> Royal Authority: 860 base potency (FoF Potency: 1075)
- Second worst filler - Hardcast HSx3: 960 base potency (FoF Potency: 1200)
- Practical Filller - Holyspirit (DM) -> somethingx2: 930 to 1210 base potency (FoF potency: 1162.5 to 1512.5)
- Best case - Holyspirit (DM) x2 + Royal Authority: 1280 base potency (FoF Potency: 1600)

Based on the above combinations, whether you'd want to be dropping the atonement(s) for alignment is still up for debate. This is primarily because dropping atonements is also a potency loss and with everything being so close, you can't exactly say for certain it is a gain without a spreadsheet taking into account everything later in the encounter.