Revelations from Patch 6.3: Gods Revel, Lands Tremble

[Slatersev]

Really enjoyed the post MSQ side quest again. Its funny, with just these two side quests, despite the fact they were dealt with in only two patches. the XIV versions of the Archfiends are all significantly more fleshed out then the originals from IV.

And the OG's ever came back for the After Years, but they basically got nothing in that game either.

Cool to have them more fleshed out here. I want them to do more sidequests like this, like for the Sundered Convocation members that havent gotten focus yet

[Alleo]

@Alleo Is the things they say before the fight what changed? If so I can post what they said before, at the halfway and at their defeat. If anyone has what they used to say. I did one run with cutscenes on. I wish that if a dungeon has been reworked and there's changed dialog they'd force you to watch it.

Oh and I guess they removed Giaus's "How very Glib" line from Praetorium this patch. So pour one out or something.

Yeah its before the fight. At least it feels new. They talk about getting the old world back with the calamities. Not sure if the dialogue changed when they fused together.

@Fenral

I thought Dynamis worked the exact opposite? The ancients could barely interact with it. They were too dense with aether which is why they did not turn into monsters but their aether bascially created some. Sundered beings though are able to be influenced by it thus why they are changed into monsters if they fall into despair. Its also why we are able to defeat Meteion because we are able to influence the Dynamis in that place.

Ok so, I know this will probably sound trivial, but considering what we now know about The Twelve....

who else is concerned about Dalamud's fate....? is he gonna die? turn feral? he was born out of people's beliefs, but now that it's public knowledge that the lesser moon was of Allag creation, his reputation is all but ruined, and 100 years into the future most people would probably not even know there was a second moon.

About the goodest boy

I really wonder about the whole deal. Do any of the gods disappear if somehow people stopped worshipping them? I mean they existed before Eorzea made them their gods and before people start to believe in them right? Its just that their belief changed them over time. (Did they all look like the watcher?)

My headcanon for now is that if you are created once you will stay alive but wont change anymore or get stronger. Of course there could also be the possibility that without prayers they just use what power they have and if that is gone they just die like other people do.

I also have a big fear that this is another "mankind is strong enough without us, so we are going to die" quest...which I would not like because our little group being that way does not mean that a huge amount of people are, especially after witnessing the final days. (But I guess at the same time it would not really matter since the gods did not really help the people themselves)

Anyway if they do disappear at the end I demand from SE to give us the good boi as a mount!

About the creation of the gods

Didnt Yoshida in a interview say that Venat bascially used up all the souls of her followers when she turned into Hydealyn? So are the gods just soulless recreations of her former friends? Was the interview wrong? It was already strange when they released the short story about the watcher.

[RyuDragnier]

About the creation of the gods

Didnt Yoshida in a interview say that Venat bascially used up all the souls of her followers when she turned into Hydealyn? So are the gods just soulless recreations of her former friends? Was the interview wrong? It was already strange when they released the short story about the watcher.

That wouldn't be mutually exclusive.

If they were used to create Hydaelyn, then her creating copies to serve as gods does not make it incorrect that the souls of her followers ended up being used up for her to last that long. Because the Twelve are copies, not the originals. The originals are gone, but the copies remain.

[Alleo]

That wouldn't be mutually exclusive.

If they were used to create Hydaelyn, then her creating copies to serve as gods does not make it incorrect that the souls of her followers ended up being used up for her to last that long. Because the Twelve are copies, not the originals. The originals are gone, but the copies remain.

Yeah I guess that makes sense. It just feels a bit strange since the watcher does have some (if not most) of his old memories from before that. Which I guess could lead into the discussion what makes a person the real deal or not. But yeah they could at the end just be quite similiar to the races on Ultima Thule, especially if Dynamis is involved.

[SannaR]

Yeah its before the fight. At least it feels new. They talk about getting the old world back with the calamities. Not sure if the dialogue changed when they fused together.

Ahh ok so this is what they say at the start. If someone knows what they said before this patch that would be welcome so we can compare.

Lahabreha: The Champion of Hydelean.
Igeyorhm: Tell me: Why do you despise the primals so?
They are the embodiment of mortal will - of mortal desire.
Plainly, you desire a foe to despise. And tis well that you do, for it is from the vortex of ceaseless conflict that Lord Zodiark shall be reborn.
Lahabreha: Through the joining, the world shall become whole again. Then all shall be as it once was - as it should ever have remained.
Igeyorhm: For the gorly of Lord Zodiark!
Lahabreha: Your meddling ends here, Warrior of Light.

Then before they make Ascian Prime
Lahabreha: Such strength! It defies all reason...
Igeyorhm: No, I will not be bested by the likes of them!
Lahabreha! It is time!
Lahabreha: Very well. Let us show these mortals the true power of the Echo...
The power to break down the barriers of existence!
Igeyorhm: I am become you...
Lahabreha: ... And we are become one
Ascian Prime: Come mortals! Render up your souls, that Lord Zodiark might be reborn!

After defeat
Ascian Prime: Aaargh!!!
What walls are these? Arrrgh!! Damn you, Hydelean!

[Fenral]

@Fenral

I thought Dynamis worked the exact opposite? The ancients could barely interact with it. They were too dense with aether which is why they did not turn into monsters but their aether bascially created some. Sundered beings though are able to be influenced by it thus why they are changed into monsters if they fall into despair. Its also why we are able to defeat Meteion because we are able to influence the Dynamis in that place.

It was really early in the morning when that thought came to me, so I was probably entirely wrong. It happens. I thought it was that they were still susceptible to it, just not able to manipulate it, so once the effects set in they were basically screwed. Otherwise the obvious solution to the Final Days would be to ban creation magick, which they couldn't because it was no longer something they could control. (I suppose Dynamis remains one of those powers that can't be pondered too deeply.)

[Iscah]

About the creation of the gods

Didnt Yoshida in a interview say that Venat bascially used up all the souls of her followers when she turned into Hydealyn? So are the gods just soulless recreations of her former friends? Was the interview wrong? It was already strange when they released the short story about the watcher.

I think you're getting the sequence mixed up.

Hydaelyn has burned through all the souls within her over the centuries, so Venat is all that remains now, and her own soul is consumed to fight and test us. This is explained in contrast to Zodiark who, either due to the larger amount of sacrifices or his stasis, has not had to consume souls and may still be running on their corporeal aether or something.

If she created beings at the beginning, when most of the souls were still intact, she could have removed those specific souls from within her.

[Cleretic]

Ok so, I know this will probably sound trivial, but considering what we now know about The Twelve....

who else is concerned about Dalamud's fate....? is he gonna die? turn feral? he was born out of people's beliefs, but now that it's public knowledge that the lesser moon was of Allag creation, his reputation is all but ruined, and 100 years into the future most people would probably not even know there was a second moon.

See, I don't think that's easily predicted, because that's clearly only going to pan out in a VERY long term.

At this point it is publicly known and acknowledged that Dalamud wasn't actually a moon, everyone gets that, but it clearly hasn't affected the heavenly realm yet. What hapens to Dalamutt kinda depends entirely on what belief about Menphina lands on decades to centuries in the future. Like, right now the collective belief as far as we know isn't 'Menphina didn't have a dog at all', but rather 'Dalamud was a Bad Dog' (which is silly because we know there is no such thing as Bad Dogs except in Elden Ring).

It's entirely possible that the collective myth about Menphina just becomes 'yeah, she has a dog', with no direct link to Dalamud. Dalamud just becomes like Odin's crows.

[SannaR]

I didn't notice this when I did the MSQ, but I did when I watched a video of someone's play through and when we get Rubicante's echo vision we only squint our eyes. So, maybe we're getting better at it?

[stenovrain]

The Myths of the Realm bugs me more than a little because my character is a Raen, which means that she comes from another culture with a different religious belief.

And the Euphrosyne storyline indicates that the Twelve were probably created by Hydaelyn. Although their appearances have changed with people's prayers and imaginations, their names are remembered correctly all along.

Does that mean that only Eorzean on the planet believe in "real" gods but people from other cultures are pagans?

And who spread the gods' true names in Eorzea and Eorzea only?

In ShB Urianger mentioned that Azeyma and Azim might be both originated from Azem, which made perfect sense because all people on the planet had the same subconscious memories of the Ancient time, and the god's name just diverged because of different cultural backgrounds.

But now that the game tells you that the line "a realm embraced by gods" is "literal" -- this line doesn't appear in the English version as often as in Japanese actually -- it begins to bug me a lot.

It's bothering enough to know that the Source is more privileged than the Shards in EW MSQ (Hydaelyn made a Plan B only for the Source), and now you tell me Eorzea is more privileged than the rest of the planet? That's not a good move.