What are the gods for?

[dspguy]

The gods take credit for the good and use some scapegoat god, maybe Zodiark(?) for all of the bad. But in all cases, they really do nothing.

[Vyrerus]

They pass the butter.

My speculation is more or less that they're inventions of Hydaelyn to help shepherd the Sundered through the hard times she "gifted" to them. Maybe even sculptures, so to speak, of the souls snuffed out in her creation. Like maybe she based them on her compatriots transformed states, even.

I could speculate all day! But alas, it's not as fun these days.

[LathyrusLoon]

Ab-so-lutely Nothin'! uh-huh, uh-huh
Say it again y'all!

[DamianFatale]

The amount of power they have is nigh infinite. To shape a realm in any way they like in an instant would take a massive power source. It's clear that they are gods, even if that is not how they started. I doubt they weigh their full power against you.

I think instead they weigh you with wits, and strategy, and adjust their strength to a level that they know you can overcome with enough hard work. If you can overcome that, then you pass each gods personal trial that they made for you, and your adventuring friends.

The fact that people believe in them as gods, and that they do watch over the planet, does make them so. There's no disputing it, whether they were created by the Ascians, are a primordial already existing force, or something different entirely. The fact that they live in their own realm, and have so much power is enough to be a god.

Even the Ascians were godlike to us, the power is incomparable to anyone alive in the present setting of the game, the only difference that they were not really worshipped. Though one could say that maybe the Garleans at some point worshipped their Emperor, especially in the end of things, so that may count as a god. Hydaelyn and Zodiark count as gods since they were worshipped, and were basically superhumans.

The google dictionary definition of a god is as follows: a superhuman being or spirit worshiped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity.

Being able to die does not disqualify one from being a god. Gods can die and still fit the definition of the concept.

[dspguy]

The amount of power they have is nigh infinite. To shape a realm in any way they like in an instant would take a massive power source. It's clear that they are gods, even if that is not how they started.

Honestly, FFXIV is a great microcosm for the real world. The gods in FFXIV are constructs of the developers and designers and portrayed to the player as deities that shaped our world.

[Necrotica]

The amount of power they have is nigh infinite. To shape a realm in any way they like in an instant would take a massive power source. It's clear that they are gods, even if that is not how they started. I doubt they weigh their full power against you.

I think instead they weigh you with wits, and strategy, and adjust their strength to a level that they know you can overcome with enough hard work. If you can overcome that, then you pass each gods personal trial that they made for you, and your adventuring friends.

The fact that people believe in them as gods, and that they do watch over the planet, does make them so. There's no disputing it, whether they were created by the Ascians, are a primordial already existing force, or something different entirely. The fact that they live in their own realm, and have so much power is enough to be a god.

Even the Ascians were godlike to us, the power is incomparable to anyone alive in the present setting of the game, the only difference that they were not really worshipped. Though one could say that maybe the Garleans at some point worshipped their Emperor, especially in the end of things, so that may count as a god. Hydaelyn and Zodiark count as gods since they were worshipped, and were basically superhumans.

The google dictionary definition of a god is as follows: a superhuman being or spirit worshiped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity.

Being able to die does not disqualify one from being a god. Gods can die and still fit the definition of the concept.

As having personally killed like...SOOOO many gods, that is not impressive. They do not have infinite power either. Otherwise they would have stopped the Final Days with said infinite power.

Honestly I have seen very little that inspires me to think they are all that powerful. They could still just be primals with delusions of grandeur.

[Aiden_Gardner]

They pass the butter.

My speculation is more or less that they're inventions of Hydaelyn to help shepherd the Sundered through the hard times she "gifted" to them. Maybe even sculptures, so to speak, of the souls snuffed out in her creation. Like maybe she based them on her compatriots transformed states, even.

I could speculate all day! But alas, it's not as fun these days.

Holy moly, that perfectly captures the way I've felt about this game after EW.

[Cleretic]

Holy moly, that perfectly captures the way I've felt about this game after EW.

I'm sure you have more specific gripes, but I think overall it's just because after Endwalker, the game's in a funny position where all the story that's defined it is just... done. Credits roll, lights come up, you leave the theater and try to remember what time it is and where you parked. Of course in this case there's still story being told, questions still lingering and things will start rolling again soon, but the big central story that all of our speculation and consideration was based around is just over.

We've got the Void story right now leading the MSQ, but as cool as that is it's ultimately very different; most of the mystery around the Void has been longstanding, and while interesting it was by nature rarely all that pressing. And Zero's great, and has done a hell of a lot establishing herself in basically one patch, but she doesn't yet feel as 'real' as a lot of the major players we've had before now. The Twelve alliance raid story similarly has mysteries but no real stakes, and Pandaemonium is... a little weird in that so much of it thus far has been completely isolated in probably the zone furthest disconnected from the rest of the game world; Pandaemonium is interesting, but it's very hard to say if/how it matters.

Basically, we're in that 'filler arc' space between sagas in an anime, where the new story isn't ready to go yet so they kinda have to find other things to do. Those can sometimes be the most fun stories from a worldbuilding or character exploration angle (I will always defend the 'Goku Learns To Drive' episode of DBZ), but if you're someone primarily interested in when the actual story is moving forward, it doesn't have much for you, at least not yet.

[Anonymoose]

My speculation is more or less that they're inventions of Hydaelyn to help shepherd the Sundered through the hard times she "gifted" to them.

Same. I've gone through 50 incarnations of this theory over the years, and I'll be honest, the vast majority of them were reactionary, "How can I speculate about something that's not an M. Night Shyamalan 'they're the Ascians somehow' situation?"

I've been through, "The Twelve were the first Warriors of Light, mis-remembered as gods, and every time Hydaelyn picks a new crew people think they're back."

I've been through, "The Twelve are emanations of Hydaelyn who were supposed to help us but stuff went sideways and that's why we have legends about them leaving us during the First Umbral Era."

I've been through, "The Twelve are the same souls reincarnated over and over again and mistaken for each other."

I've been through, "The Twelve are Venat's twelve friends, somehow."

And I've been through, "The Twelve are a group of friends Azem came back to town with."

In 2023, I can dismiss a lot of minor details in the "modern-day mythology" like recently-cobbled-together Sharyalan beliefs and the origin story of "The Whorl", if I need to, but I think it'd be weird if nothing form the 1.0 mythology turned out to be true and the Azem / Azeyma thread was a meaningless red herring.

That lands me on a weird fusion of various past theories:

"The Twelve are the souls of Venat's friends who sacrificed themselves to summon Hydaelyn, and then after Her victory over Zodiark and the Great Sundering, She released those souls, albeit forever changed, not unlike Minfilia, to guide the broken and confused survivors. And then, when the first Calamity came, the circumstances somehow necessitated that they withdraw unto their 'heavens' and they have been watching quietly from there ever since."

How does Azem / Azeyma fit into that? ELEPHINO. Idk, Venat had kind of a "shadow convocation" going on - 13 vs 13? (Elidibus ended up one of the 14 in the end despite being separate from them in the original lore.) Maybe Azeyma is a thread of faith spun off of Venat somehow. Everything I come up with there is flimsy aside from "Azem made new friends" but then how did Azem end up separated and sundered. The Twelve don't seem to appear in the First's mythology in any form.

Holy moly, that perfectly captures the way I've felt about this game after EW.

Same, but I actually feel kind of free because of it. With the 10-year saga I felt like I had to keep up with and update and evolve my speculation from patch to patch to patch, inching towards solving these grand mysteries, and now it's like a huge burden is off my shoulders. That also means speculating is less fun, but it's been so demanding for so long that the break is kind of nice!

I bet it's the same for the dev. team. With every new idea they've had they've had to think "well what are the Ascians doing right now" and "what's up with Hydaelyn right now" and "how does this tie into the great war across the eras." I bet they've been restricted. And now we can go anywhere, we can do anything.

And I imagine that as new toys are placed on our newly cleaned floor... we'll start finding new ways to play with them. We're just processing our closure, give SE time to naturally build our interest in whatever's next.

[SannaR]

Is it weird that I've listened to enough podcasts that have had Moose on them that I was able to hear his voice in this last post of his?