The Garlean Empire vs Omega

[Iscah]

I don't think the Garleans can claim to have defeated Midgardsormr unless it was a deliberate plan to use their flagship and all its crew as bait to make the dragon attack it and bring the whole thing down in a fiery explosion, and hope that the dragon didn't survive the blast. And that sounds like a rather poor plan on several levels.

[Carin-Eri]

I don't think the Garleans can claim to have defeated Midgardsormr unless it was a deliberate plan to use their flagship and all its crew as bait to make the dragon attack it and bring the whole thing down in a fiery explosion, and hope that the dragon didn't survive the blast. And that sounds like a rather poor plan on several levels.

The cinematic of the Battle of Silvertear Skies, and Gaius van Baelsar's reflection subsequent to the battle, confirm that it was definitely not their intention - they hadn't counted on having to engage Dragons in battle and were not aware of Midgardsormr and his role as guardian of Silvertear:
(Quote)
It has been fifteen years, but the bitter taste of defeat lingers still... Fifteen years since the imperial fleet set course for Mor Dhona, led by the Agrius, mightiest of all vessels. Silvertear Lake lay ripe for the taking, and all of Eorzea would soon be ours - or so we believed. But an innumerable host of dragons met us that day, at the heart of which flew the great Midgardsormr. Though we succeeded in slaying that lord among wyrms, the dread serpent's defeat was bought at too high a price. Our invincible flagship was lost, and all hope of victory with her. So ended our glorious conquest.

And the sequence of events don't support Midgardsormr having a death wish either - he paused after he dragged the Agrius down, let out a roar of victory, but was then 'killed' by the explosion caused by the ceruleum tanks of the Agrius exploding, something Midgardsormr likely couldn't have predicted would happen.

[Duskane]

1 Billion lions vs Omega

[Necrotica]

Fun fact: Midgardsormr was not, in fact, killed by the Garleans.

More fun facts: the means by which a dragon actually is destroyed is rather ambiguous and may or may not involve their eyes, ability to possess others, etc.

They are not entirely unlike the Ascians in certain aspects.

Or did you not play Heavansward?

We kill a large number of dragons in this game. And some of the smaller ones go down real easy. The first brood are definately far beyond the others in power and I am not entirely sure if it is an age thing or if they just suffer some kind of genetic decay as the bloodlines get more removed from whatever super ancestor Midgardsormr came from. At no point is it ever brought up that we could use the eyes of lesser dragons as any kind of aether source.

The Ascians seem more like free form spirits that can possess at will. At one point it was mentioned they use dark crystals to accomplish this but not sure that is canon anymore since we never seem to have to destroy those crystals since one scene in ARR with a black masker.

The (let's call them 'True') Dragons eyes seem to act as a phylactery of sorts. The dragon can operate without them so long as they are not destroyed. They seem to need physical contact to draw on them for power. Others can use them if they have physical control of them, but the True Dragon still maintains influence over them to a limited degree.

Nydhoggs body was destroyed and after that Hraesvalgr referred to what came after as a shade. Implying it was not really his brother. But then when we expel him from Estiniens body we see his soul ascend to the heavens. While his eyes are still both very much still intact.

So you can kill a dragon while keeping its eyes intact which kinda ruins the phylactery analogy.

To bring this back to Midgardsomr, no one ever says a thing about using his eyes for power which seems like a bit of an oversight since the primal those things could summon would make Shinryu look like good king moogle mog. This is either because the Ascians feared him even in his Odin sleep mode or it is possible his power has nothing to do with his eyes and that is strictly a thing for his direct children.

Dragons are all over the place with how they work. Need to get a sharlayan to break them down into subspecies.

[Carin-Eri]

To bring this back to Midgardsomr, no one ever says a thing about using his eyes for power which seems like a bit of an oversight since the primal those things could summon would make Shinryu look like good king moogle mog. This is either because the Ascians feared him even in his Odin sleep mode or it is possible his power has nothing to do with his eyes and that is strictly a thing for his direct children.

Possible - I mean, Midgardsomr is a 'pure' Dragonstar Dragon whereas the first brood all hatched on Eorzea. Maybe that had some influence on matters?

[thegreatonemal]

We kill a large number of dragons in this game. And some of the smaller ones go down real easy. The first brood are definately far beyond the others in power and I am not entirely sure if it is an age thing or if they just suffer some kind of genetic decay as the bloodlines get more removed from whatever super ancestor Midgardsormr came from. At no point is it ever brought up that we could use the eyes of lesser dragons as any kind of aether source.

The Ascians seem more like free form spirits that can possess at will. At one point it was mentioned they use dark crystals to accomplish this but not sure that is canon anymore since we never seem to have to destroy those crystals since one scene in ARR with a black masker.

The (let's call them 'True') Dragons eyes seem to act as a phylactery of sorts. The dragon can operate without them so long as they are not destroyed. They seem to need physical contact to draw on them for power. Others can use them if they have physical control of them, but the True Dragon still maintains influence over them to a limited degree.

Nydhoggs body was destroyed and after that Hraesvalgr referred to what came after as a shade. Implying it was not really his brother. But then when we expel him from Estiniens body we see his soul ascend to the heavens. While his eyes are still both very much still intact.

So you can kill a dragon while keeping its eyes intact which kinda ruins the phylactery analogy.

To bring this back to Midgardsomr, no one ever says a thing about using his eyes for power which seems like a bit of an oversight since the primal those things could summon would make Shinryu look like good king moogle mog. This is either because the Ascians feared him even in his Odin sleep mode or it is possible his power has nothing to do with his eyes and that is strictly a thing for his direct children.

Dragons are all over the place with how they work. Need to get a sharlayan to break them down into subspecies.

They aren't all over the place you just gotta go through t again. Age is what determines how strong a dragon is, they keep getting stronger the longer they are alive. They can be killed.

If you've ever played ff10 Nidhogg is basically an unsent at that point. He died at the Arey and it's his lingering rage that took physical form after possessing Estinien. That's why they call it a shade.

[Cleretic]

1 Billion lions vs Omega

My money's on Omega, because to my knowledge most lions can't fly.

It's not gonna be visually engaging or all that exciting, but Omega's an 'if it works, it works' kinda fellow.

[Lyth]

If we are talking about E12S lions, then there would be no way to resolve the mechanic and it would result in Omega being raidwiped. Omega would probably prefer to just skip them altogether.

[kaynide]

Nydhoggs body was destroyed and after that Hraesvalgr referred to what came after as a shade. Implying it was not really his brother. But then when we expel him from Estiniens body we see his soul ascend to the heavens. While his eyes are still both very much still intact.

So you can kill a dragon while keeping its eyes intact which kinda ruins the phylactery analogy..

Regardless of how or what is destroyed, the dragon itself is still alive to some degree, or in some cases (like Midgard) a deep and possibly indefinite hibernation. (give or take Omega storyline)



Nidhogg specifically could exist without his eyes (even using his brother's) to live.

Even with his body and the eyes completely destroyed, there is a certain amount taint remaining in Estenien that threatens to take control.

If anything, elder/more powerful dragons are almost a viral/lycanthropic creature able to exert a certain amount of control/power simply by having the blood mixed in another creature. And, should the host be of a certain strength it seems they can control the dragon's power.

[Duskane]

My money's on Omega, because to my knowledge most lions can't fly.

It's not gonna be visually engaging or all that exciting, but Omega's an 'if it works, it works' kinda fellow.

the PLD lions can fly or is that WoL magic?