Please add damage meters, Yoshi P.

[Tyjacon]

Yet you never mentioned it

Didn't think I had to ..... my comment wasn't about Yoshi in particular, but
For your benefit; NEWS FLASH ..... Yoshi plays FFXIV.

I also didn't mention that Yoshi was fascinated by the ability to control a character on a television when he was younger, but he was .

Or how he was bewildered by the fact a player couldn't ride a chocobo in the 1.0 version of the game.

[Ransu]

Why do you keep bringing new players into this argument?

People aren't discussing new players to the game, new is before you get to max level

Plenty of new and casual players in the "expert" roulettes every day. I'm not overly concerned about peoples performance in dungeons that you can sleep walk through.

[Midareyukki]

I don't want any part of that progression applied to FFXIV. So far the devs have watched and gotten the right lessons from watching other games struggle, and have realized where the money is, and it's not in allowing tryhards to run off all the non-tryhards, and I'm not talking about 'bads' here.

Except that by default this isn't such a game and the ToS + dev outlook on things is very, very different.

We don't have an Ion or whatever his name is on our dev team. That alone makes such a big difference in countering that sort of future. Among many other things, I'm sure. Like, I'm all for cautionary tales, but we shouldn't forget this game's own context and history.

Plus, with people who remember how those days in WoW are like and are so against this idea in the first place, I highly doubt toxicity coming from parses would ever even be tolerated, so you don't have much to fear.

[VelKallor]

I'm not watching an hour+ long video, but WoW's toxicity isn't only because of parsing tools.

I did..if YOU had, youd not be saying that.

I know exactly what WoW is like, I don't have to waste my time on an hour long video to see it.

So do I. That video is dead on. Then again i had the patience to actually listen to what they had to say.

And lol, number agenda? Excuse me?

Go back, exercise some patience...."stay a while and listen"

This makes me think on how many people excuse and promote laissez-faire lazy playstyles and even resist the suggestion of making Hall of the Novice or any potential subsequent versions of it mandatory for new players.

Forcing people to do content doesnt make it good or useful. You should not have to "sit a test and be assessed' to play a damned VIDEO GAME.

Ill also notice that TWICE in this thread and others, I have seen posters whine because they cant access my FFlogs to pick me apart..proving my point that they are willing to abuse and MISUSE the data in FFLogs to denigrate others...kinda proves my point, doesnt it?.

[FireMage]

I did..if YOU had, youd not be saying that.



So do I. That video is dead on. Then again i had the patience to actually listen to what they had to say.



Go back, exercise some patience...."stay a while and listen"



Forcing people to do content doesnt make it good or useful. You should not have to "sit a test and be assessed' to play a damned VIDEO GAME.

Ill also notice that TWICE in this thread and others, I have seen posters whine because they cant access my FFlogs to pick me apart..proving my point that they are willing to abuse and MISUSE the data in FFLogs to denigrate others...kinda proves my point, doesnt it?.

Your value on this matter is equivalent to your skill

[Saraide]

Ill also notice that TWICE in this thread and others, I have seen posters whine because they cant access my FFlogs to pick me apart..proving my point that they are willing to abuse and MISUSE the data in FFLogs to denigrate others...kinda proves my point, doesnt it?.

Does it though? The forum isnt the same place as the ingame chat. The forums are a place to thoroughly discuss and chew through topics, ingame chat isnt. The amount of times I've read on this forum how different the ingame climate is compared to the forum is staggering but now suddenly you want to paint it as one and the same?

[Zebraoracle]

Jan 28 2005 to about 2 months into Shadowlands. Long enough to suit you?
I know exactly what WoW has turned into, and damage meters and the attitudes that some of you dearly want to adopt is a major part of WHY people have left that game in droves. They turned a game that was fun in 2010 to a game that by 2015 was turning into "Sorry, we won't invite you for a group because your class is 5% behind others" and "How dare you not know the dungeon inside and out the first time you have ever run it!!!" The players mathed all the fun out of the game.
YMMV.

I don't want any part of that progression applied to FFXIV. So far the devs have watched and gotten the right lessons from watching other games struggle, and have realized where the money is, and it's not in allowing tryhards to run off all the non-tryhards, and I'm not talking about 'bads' here.

"dearly want to adopt" Oh please, would you all stop with this crap, it just makes you look like you're either not reading and understanding the replies in this thread, or you're twisting things around to make it seem like your argument is more valid than it actually is.

WoW has lost players in droves for multiple reasons, and putting the blame on parsing as a "major" reason why people left is so silly. The fiasco with Blizzard's harassment crap and multiple horrendous expansions were much larger issues than people parsing and theorycrafting, which, by the way, existed in the game as early as WotLK. It's been there for AGES and people tout WotLK as one of the best expansions in WoW's history. Icy-veins started in 2011, in fact. Nine years before Shadowlands.

And you clearly don't raid in 14 either (which isn't an attack on you or anyone else before this gets twisted), because optimizing and all that stuff you're scared of coming here *already exists in the game*. And you know what? The crowd that's going to do that content is pretty separate from the vast majority of the playerbase. Do you realize how small the raiding community in 14 actually is? Tryhards aren't going to be running off anyone, especially when if they try to spout off on people they're going to get suspended/banned. You just sound like you're trying to put boogiemen in places where they're not actually going to be.

[Zebraoracle]

I did..if YOU had, youd not be saying that.



So do I. That video is dead on. Then again i had the patience to actually listen to what they had to say.

We've already been over this: Your experience =/= objective fact, your experience is anecdotal and your own personal experience, many other people have different experiences. I've played a LOT of WoW and I RARELY ran into these issues that you claim are rampant and happened constantly. From Dungeon Finder to pugging raids, I hardly ever saw anyone screaming about DPS, except when someone was legit sandbagging (read: just following along, not using abilities, and refusing to actually play the game, which... you don't exactly need Recount or whatever other parses exist now to see that). Actually I had my own guild get aggravated because I was joking with a cohealer about our healing (because she was beating me in healing and I was trying my best to overtake her) and I was told to not talk about parses because it might make someone feel bad.

Forcing people to do content doesnt make it good or useful. You should not have to "sit a test and be assessed' to play a damned VIDEO GAME.

HotN isn't an assessment or a test, what? It's a tutorial, which many games have.

Ill also notice that TWICE in this thread and others, I have seen posters whine because they cant access my FFlogs to pick me apart..proving my point that they are willing to abuse and MISUSE the data in FFLogs to denigrate others...kinda proves my point, doesnt it?.

Maybe because it's literally the subject of the thread and seeing if you actually raid or not is helpful to know where your experience is on this matter.

At the end of the day, none of this matters, in game parsing tools aren't going to be added and we all know it. But using WoW as a boogieman, blaming a parsing tool for idiots misusing it, and using personal experience as objective fact and not just as anecdotal experience to explain your standpoint is silly.

[VelKallor]

Your value on this matter is equivalent to your skill

I was wondering when you would chime in. Seeing as you have no way of knowing in any case, the comment is moot.

WoW has lost players in droves for multiple reasons, and putting the blame on parsing as a "major" reason why people left is so silly. The fiasco with Blizzard's harassment crap and multiple horrendous expansions were much larger issues than people parsing and theorycrafting, which, by the way, existed in the game as early as WotLK. It's been there for AGES and people tout WotLK as one of the best expansions in WoW's history. Icy-veins started in 2011, in fact. Nine years before Shadowlands.

Oddly enough, the video I posted covers that...........in detail.

We've already been over this: Your experience =/= objective fact, your experience is anecdotal and your own personal experience, many other people have different experiences. I've played a LOT of WoW and I RARELY ran into these issues that you claim are rampant and happened constantly

On this i willingly concede. You may dismiss what I have seen as "anecdotal"..yet I can replicate these occurrences with other players who will happily recount THEIRS as well. I submit that the fact it didnt happen to you is not evidence it didnt happen.

This is from GameFaqs, draw your own conclusions

Damage meters WILL increase the competitiveness of the game environment, as it gives players an easy metric to compare each other. Even if the intent is to provide a good tool for analysis, they're inevitably misused. They're also VERY hard to get rid of. Even in games where damage meters are forbidden (FFXIV), people still sneak in their own parsing tools (DPS meter) and compare performance; still, making them less accessible at least slows down their influence.

This competition, rather than encouraging teamwork, is what mostly contributes to toxicity in online communities. Essentially, the tool is NOT the problem; it's the community and their need to be on top individually rather than as a group. The damage meter is just the tool which gives the community an avenue to indulge in toxic behaviour

In this very thread, we have the term "bads" being thrown around, which illustrates my point on dps numbers giving rise to a "Im superior to them so its fine for me to scream abuse at them" mentality.

I also submit that, as with any tool, regardless of what it is, the old adage "If it can be abused or misused, it will be" holds true. I agree you do not share my conclusions, but at the same time it would be..unwise..to dismiss them out of hand.

Vels Rules: Book One Page Ten: "It is foolish to ignore what is in front of you, even if you disagree with it. The messenger is not the message"

[Saraide]

I was wondering when you would chime in. Seeing as you have no way of knowing in any case, the comment is moot.



Oddly enough, the video I posted covers that...........in detail.



On this i willingly concede. You may dismiss what I have seen as "anecdotal"..yet I can replicate these occurrences with other players who will happily recount THEIRS as well. I submit that the fact it didnt happen to you is not evidence it didnt happen.

This is from GameFaqs, draw your own conclusions



In this very thread, we have the term "bads" being thrown around, which illustrates my point on dps numbers giving rise to a "Im superior to them so its fine for me to scream abuse at them" mentality.

I also submit that, as with any tool, regardless of what it is, the old adage "If it can be abused or misused, it will be" holds true. I agree you do not share my conclusions, but at the same time it would be..unwise..to dismiss them out of hand.

Vels Rules: Book One Page Ten: "It is foolish to ignore what is in front of you, even if you disagree with it. The messenger is not the message"

What do you think would happen if I pop off ingame on somebody for failing a mechanic right now? I would catch a swift journey to GM gaol. Why do you pretend popping off on someone's dps numbers in the case an official parser gets introduced would lead to a different outcome?