Be honest, Devs, did you forget?

[Iscah]

I agree with the sentiment of the thread, but please, please put the actual subject of a thread in the title. Not just a clickbaity nothing rant at the devs for forgetting "something".

Call the thread "Neglect of Moon Keeper lore" and rant at the devs inside if you like (not that they'll respond), but make the thread purpose clear from the title so it can be found in the list of topics.

[Cleretic]

Not to mention things like duskwights still living primarily underground

Actually that's not really clear. We know the Duskwight were primarily underground for a good while, largely by choice, but we've never seen nor heard from any Duskwight that still live there. Similarly, we've never heard from any of the Duskwight we have met that there's nobody down there.

The Duskwight are still discriminated against pretty hard and painted as a bunch of bandits, so it's really nasty no matter what, but it's unclear if anyone's still living in their ancestral Gelmorra or not. (I think the roleplaying community tend to go by 'there's still conservative families down there', but that's more just community-accepted canon than it is actual stated fact.)

[MikkoAkure]

Actually that's not really clear. We know the Duskwight were primarily underground for a good while, largely by choice, but we've never seen nor heard from any Duskwight that still live there. Similarly, we've never heard from any of the Duskwight we have met that there's nobody down there.

A lore panel interview “Between 2 Fernes 2” from 2017 shed a little light on this and the animosity between Wildwoods and Duskwights. Gelmorra is mostly abandoned ruins except for the bits that have been repurposed like Tam-Tara, Toto-Rak, and Mun-Tuy.

When the Hyur and most of the Elezen left Gelmorra to create Gridania, the Elezen left behind were stuck with an underground city that required more maintenance than the remaining population could keep up with or supply with food and they were forced to abandon it and are still upset about it ever since.


This is reinforced by a pair of Duskwight NPCs out in the Shroud at a dig site at Issom-Har. One talks about bringing Gelmorra to its former glory to be a home for Duskwight again, as if it isn’t now. In a side quest, the other discusses the importance to Duskwight about learning more where her ancestors once lived. Neither are expecting to go down there to visit cousin Reauxbert munching on Mun-Tuy beans.


I’m still confused how a little extra time in the underground suddenly creates a different race and makes them blue, but Fantasy I guess.

[shadowclasper]

I’m still confused how a little extra time in the underground suddenly creates a different race and makes them blue, but Fantasy I guess.

My understanding is that they once looked the same but phenotypical differences popped up once the populations separated, same way moderate differences in skin coloration, bone structure, etc popped up in humans even within the same latitudes band. Also, aetheric nonsense obviously has an outsized impact on evolution and phenotype expression otherwise there's no real way to explain how dunefolk have an entire extra organ in their eyes

[Cleretic]

A lore panel interview “Between 2 Fernes 2” from 2017 shed a little light on this and the animosity between Wildwoods and Duskwights. Gelmorra is mostly abandoned ruins except for the bits that have been repurposed like Tam-Tara, Toto-Rak, and Mun-Tuy.

I admit, this is the thing that really bugs me about FFXIV lore. Sometimes REALLY useful information about a specific subject that we couldn't have just intuited from everything else we have only has one source, and it's 'a single panel at a convention from five years ago that by all rights you have no reason to believe would have this sort of information'. This is far from the only time I've hit something like this, and it's annoying every time.

At least it's never about something super important, though; as much as I wish otherwise, Gelmorra's a goddamn footnote. This isn't a problem that comes up about stuff like the Ascians or Sharlayan, all the info you could possibly need about them is laid out in the game and the Encyclopedia Eorzea.


And honestly, I don't really get too bothered by the notion that an entire phenotypically different ethnicity cropped up over a few hundred years, just because it's kinda treated as nebulously 'long' and there's been much weirder fantasy nonsense. It's not even all that egregious, since elezen are probably the race with the fewest differences between their subraces; as far as the character creator goes it's basically just a different pool of available skin tones (with some overlap) and I think a higher average ear size. My character is damn near identical to Enie (the Skybuilder's Scrip vendor in the Firmament) outside of hair, eye and lip color, despite Enie being Wildwood and my character being Duskwight. Duskwight aren't actually THAT different, I could totally buy that they're just the result of a half-dozen generations of breeding in different populations and environments.

[SannaR]

They also have different ear clips. Not that is much of a difference. I want to say the Duskwight we meet during the Wyrlet storyline didn't imply they weren't living underground. Just on the wrong side of the wall.

[Iscah]

A real problem with the information about the current state of Gelmorra isn't that we don't have it, but that we have conflicting accounts. Amid these references indicating Gelmorra is abandoned, there are occasional ones indicating that they are still following that way of life today – so if not in Gelmorra, then where?

Also, the fact that the clarification only comes from this one lore panel years ago leaves it vulnerable to being rewritten in future, especially if Koji is busy with other projects (and depending on who else knows that version of the explanation.

I’m still confused how a little extra time in the underground suddenly creates a different race and makes them blue, but Fantasy I guess.

A curious little detail (which I think I got pointed to by a thread here a while back), whether intentional or not by the devs, is that there is an actual condition where exposure to silver particles can turn people's skin blue-grey – and silver is mined in the Black Shroud, right where we find the two "wild-dwelling" populations with blue-grey skin colour options.

But could just as easily put it down to magic and ambient elemental influences, or something.

They also have different ear clips. Not that is much of a difference.

Actually, only Wildwoods get the fancy ear clasps while Duskwights get their racial tattoos as the equivalent option (with placement and colour choice).

Female Duskwights do get a single option for ear clasps in the "additional options" menu but with no customisation.

[Cleretic]

Actually, only Wildwoods get the fancy ear clasps while Duskwights get their racial tattoos as the equivalent option (with placement and colour choice).

Female Duskwights do get a single option for ear clasps in the "additional options" menu but with no customisation.

So it kinda just lends towards the notion that Duskwight are probably more culturally different than they are biologically, which tracks for their general story (on both sides of it). They aren't THAT different when you're actually looking at them, but they have entirely different cultural signifiers and possibly standards of beauty. That, combined with a history that's recent enough for families to probably have actual stories about the split, makes for a pretty reasonable explanation for why they're a pretty discriminated-against minority even now. Their story isn't too far from some First Nations people around the world in a lot of regards, especially when you remember that Gelmorra was essentially their ancestral lands.

[MikkoAkure]

A real problem with the information about the current state of Gelmorra isn't that we don't have it, but that we have conflicting accounts. Amid these references indicating Gelmorra is abandoned, there are occasional ones indicating that they are still following that way of life today – so if not in Gelmorra, then where?

Also, the fact that the clarification only comes from this one lore panel years ago leaves it vulnerable to being rewritten in future, especially if Koji is busy with other projects (and depending on who else knows that version of the explanation.

Considering there's dialogue in-game from those 2 NPCs I mentioned that supports Gelmorra being a completely abandoned ruin with no Duskwights living in it, the lore was probably originally written by Oda and repeated at the lore panel by Koji, instead of something made up on the fly. So that in itself lends it some staying power.

I just picked up my copy of EE1 and checked on the description of the Duskwight and it does say that some stayed in Gelmorra and some left to "new subterranean sanctums" and that does make sense, since they're still not a part of Gridania's contract with the Elementals. The ones who stayed in Gelmorra must have eventually left too for modern Duskwight to consider it abandoned. Elsewhere, the EE refers to Gelmorra as being nothing more than ruins and I feel like I remember an NPC in Gridania even mention that at least some of the ruins are being destroyed on the orders of the Elementals. But there are more than enough caves in the area for Duskwight to continue living in and they must've just scattered to separate, isolated cave systems. I guess that would account for their continued adaptation to being underground as well.