(ShB/EW SPOILERS) Why do people like Emet-Selch?

[Hurlstone]

I see Emet and his kin as tragic characters, who have endured great suffering and centuries of lonely existence obsessing about what was lost. By the time we meet him he has become so warped by these things that his past self utterly refuses to belive that his actions could be real. I do feel apart of him genuinely wants us to stop him, or prove that we are not the 'inferior' species he states we are. Its these things that make him probably one of the best written characters in Final Fantasy and one of the most fascinating characters in the game. His English voice actor also deserves much credit in this regard, utterly nailing those layers.

That said, you can like villains and not support their actions. Not everyone likes Darth Vader is a fascist, and not everyone who likes the Joker is a sexist psycopath. Whilst I can empithise with Emet and his people, he still commited multiple genocides with little to no consideration for the lives lost simply because he did not even consider them as alive (racism really.) We can remember him, but that dose not mean we have to condone or forgive.

[MikkoAkure]

But "his social skills were worse, so his genocide was worse compared to other genocides" is just kinda, huh, to me.

Maybe what I said way up there was hard to follow, but Emet-Selch was worse because he didn't care about people and melted them down to make his preferred flesh suit and couldn't care less if thousands died for a spot of fun despite the fact that doing so was detrimental to his plan. Hence lack of empathy. You seem to be stuck on trying to drag the conversation into definitions of words and different understandings of character flaws and thinking that somehow that by itself makes me think he's a worse person instead of the actions he does. He does those things because of his flaws and they originated before his time as an Ascian and only grew worse.

[Iscah]

Emet actually has so much empathy that it makes him stupid, and often take stupid actions to his own detriment, and this is consistent through both expansions he features heavily in.

Perhaps he could have spared some empathy for Varis, because he was absolutely horrid and manipulative to him throughout those early scenes and it completely coloured my expectations about what we were supposed to feel about his true personality throughout Shadowbringers.

His character arc probably would have worked better if he was a complete stranger to us at the point where he first appeared to the Scions.

[Brinne]

Perhaps he could have spared some empathy for Varis, because he was absolutely horrid and manipulative to him throughout those early scenes and it completely coloured my expectations about what we were supposed to feel about his true personality throughout Shadowbringers.

His character arc probably would have worked better if he was a complete stranger to us at the point where he first appeared to the Scions.

Yeah, I honestly wouldn't be surprised that if SE had to do it all over again from the beginning, they'd detach Solus from Emet's character in one way or another. I think Stormblood Emet/Solus is hilarious and I don't mind him as a part of Emet's story per se, but you can tell he was largely written from a standpoint of not having any idea that Shadowbringers + Endwalker Emet were in the pipeline, so to speak. And it's not like they ever actually really do anything meaningful with his identity as Solus.

I think his short story mostly makes it square away with his psychology - he's particularly cruel to Varis because of his hurt after showing vulnerability regarding his son (this does not excuse it whatsoever; his treatment of Varis was indeed horrid and abusive, especially when he was a child), but in terms of the intent, it's valid to raise as a weird point that might feel inconsistent. Being generous to the writing, you could look to that moment the mask drops for a second and he expresses that he genuinely does pity Varis, but it's a bit of a drop in the bucket.

Maybe what I said way up there was hard to follow, but Emet-Selch was worse because he didn't care about people and melted them down to make his preferred flesh suit and couldn't care less if thousands died for a spot of fun despite the fact that doing so was detrimental to his plan. Hence lack of empathy. You seem to be stuck on trying to drag the conversation into definitions of words and different understandings of character flaws and thinking that somehow that by itself makes me think he's a worse person instead of the actions he does. He does those things because of his flaws and they originated before his time as an Ascian and only grew worse.

Oh, okay. If I'm understanding you correctly, you read an excessive cruelty in his methods that you think can be traced back to an essential problem in his personality back even in his Ancient days, reflected in how he treats Hermes. I still strongly disagree with this - or at least in the way it's framed as attributed, straightforwardly, to a streak of callousness that always existed. Emet's twists of excessive cruelty aren't attributed, when all is said and done with his characterization to an intrinsic "cruelty" or "callousness" that was always there. It's something he violently, excessively, self-destructively throws himself into because the deep kindness that is the "true" part of who he always was (reflected in how he treats Hermes) viscerally can't stand what he's doing, and he's trying to shut it up and make it disappear. He's oscillating wildly between burnt-out depression, despairing resentment at others, self-loathing, and loathing in general all as parts of his shrieking copium that, yes, does immeasurable and unjustifiable harm to others. And he recognizes that on some level, and then the cycle continues.

Emet's just a great, fascinating character.

[Raven2014]

Maybe what I said way up there was hard to follow, but Emet-Selch was worse because he didn't care about people and melted them down to make his preferred flesh suit and couldn't care less if thousands died for a spot of fun despite the fact that doing so was detrimental to his plan. Hence lack of empathy.

You think like this because you have a bias view as a person on Haedalyn team. We see the current world as people, he doesn't.

Say, if you were born a pig, would you think humanity lack empathy as well? You probably would - as a pig. But do you think most human think themselves as lacking empathy when we raise, slaughter, and eat pork? Most definitely not, we see them as sustainment.

If you think about it:

- Ancient lives pretty much forever, comparing to the short lifespan of the current world.
- They wield creation power who can create life out of aether. Emet-Selch created a freaking city bigger than any capital - by himself - simply out of nostalgia. And Venat even topped that by creating another celestial body.
- Theirs were a harmonic society that half of the population willing to scarified themself so the other half can live. Comparing to the current world where people constantly fight and try to dominate each other, even when they're already at the zenix (Allagan Empire)


Basically, the "gap" between the Ancient and the current world is almost as big as between human and pigs, if not bigger. If someone say "let's kill off the human so the pig can live in peace" ... most of us won't even turn that into the question of empathy, but madness.

[SannaR]

I don't know it's not only Emet's fault for why Varis and then Zenos is the way they are. Varis is his grandson and was fighting his uncle in the 1st civil war. Which implies that Emet as Solus at least had three kids. Can't fight your uncle for the throne if there isn't at least two children who didn't die at a young age. And just because your grandfather is a cold callous jerkwad doesn't mean everyone else in that family has to be that way. Sure, it probably would be a rare thing to happen cause cycles are hard to break and all that. Yet we do know people who have a sunny disposition do end up in families that are cold, distant and maybe even callous to each other. That and Zenos just seemed to not even care about wanting to form bonds with his peers. Can't form bonds with others if you see the things they're interested in are beneath you or are not intriguing enough for you to try and do so.

[Jojoya]

One can appreciate good character development and want to see more of that character without approving of the character's actions. It is just a story, after all. It's not a real life dilemma.

[hagare]

boy, you're opening pandora's box

[Naoki34]

genuine question. the guy spends all his time talking about how his race is so perfect and wonderful and every other race is evil malformed subhumans and society would be perfect if only his race existed... as far as I've seen he's just fantasy h****r with a little bit of sass

the nail in the coffin for me was the cutscene in the cave where i immediately thought "well if they went as far as blowing up the planet they probably had a very compelling reason to do so" but emet was like "they did it just because they thought zodiark was ugly." without even considering there might have been something else going on... possibly related to the world-ending event that just happened

as a femboy appreciator, i can understand being so desperate for hythlodaeus that he'd commit several genocides to get him back, but at least be honest instead of the whole "i wanna kill everyone to make the world better" thing...

Because : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0E2xaZAXoc

[RobynDaBank]

The internet has always had an odd obsession with fictional villains that have sad backstories. Nothing new here.

If most of the Emet enjoyers saw him irl coming their way as he appears in the game, they'd probably cross to the other side of the street.

I'm no "Emet enjoyer" but I'd definitely be interested in a guy with his nose in the air and wearing an outfit as silly as him IRL. Tailing would be rude but he'd intrigue more than disgust.