(ShB/EW SPOILERS) Why do people like Emet-Selch?

[RukoBoshi]

Rightfully blamed? Is it really rightfully blaming when the WoL is killing people who are INVADING and killing Eorzeans? Is that really some horrible act? @_@

Rightfully in the sense that we did kill them. Of course we were justified in doing so for the reason you wrote.
It just doesn't matter to the close one of the people we killed. Their rightfully angry at us, from their point of view.

[Zebraoracle]

Rightfully in the sense that we did kill them. Of course we were justified in doing so for the reason you wrote.
It just doesn't matter to the close one of the people we killed. Their rightfully angry at us, from their point of view.

I don't think they're rightfully angry at the WoL, they should be angry at their government who's forcing them into a stupid power seeking war that's getting their own people killed. Too bad the civilians are all indoctrinated, as we've seen. Still doesn't make their anger at the WoL "right", though.

[Renalt]

Rightfully blamed? Is it really rightfully blaming when the WoL is killing people who are INVADING and killing Eorzeans? Is that really some horrible act? @_@

Depends on how long it was till we knew that most of those people were conscripted into the military as their only other choice other than death. The WoL is I think canonically the strongest single force on the planet. We that sheer amount of power...other options are available. I see the point though. Killing in defense shouldn't be punishable. However we have that ability to just give them a thorough spanking and send them to bed without a snack. Yet again however who knows what those we grant mercy to would do to OTHERS if they can't contend with us directly.

It's almost as if taking a life has a lot of weight thrown into that decision and people will judge you off of your successes as much as your failures.

It's a grey area. Lots of questions with no clear answer.

[MikkoAkure]

I thought OP was talking about people who thirst after him lol.


As others said, he's popular because he's a villain who seems to have an actual motivation to do what he does more than just being evil, which is all that the Ascians seemed to be up to until him. Then after being defeated in a test of our right to exist that could have been completely avoided if he had instead decided to wait out WoL's demise watching from afar on the Moon or in a different Shard, he turns on the last Ascian left as well as the only hope for the revival of Zodiark and his friends by freeing us and letting us kill the last of the Unsundered. He has A LOT going on and is a complicated character in a game where most characters don't get much characterization and are mostly generic.

That all said, while he's one of my favorite characters I don't think you can compare him to WoL or even Venat when it comes to killing and genocide because unlike the other two his personality needed a lot of work back when he was just an Ancient and definitely so when he was an Ascian. I think that's something that a lot of people seem to gloss over. It could be argued that the whole plot wouldn't exist if Emet-Selch wasn't a jerk since his self-importance, abrasive personality, desire for justification, and lack of patience or empathy often dooms whatever side he's supposed to be on and in my eyes, that makes him more of a tragic figure than his being sad and tempered for thousands of years.

Possessing someone on the First and physically warping their body to the form you're comfortable with is kind of a hard thing to justify even accounting for moral relativism, had nothing to do with bringing his dead friends back, and just showed that he's become unnecessarily cruel and simply does not care. And before that, he laughed about setting up the first Garlean Civil War and how it ended up being worse than he imagined it would be, despite the fact that it would have delayed his plans and if it did fall, it would have greatly delayed any upcoming calamities.

Back in Elpis, he kept being pushy about the seat of Fandaniel to Hermes, who through the journey around the zone showed that he really had no business being on the Convocation or in a position of power. Even more than other Ancients, Emet-Selch seemed to really lack the ability to empathize with others, notice how others are feeling, or know how to de-escalate a situation. After Hermes has the worst couple of days of his life having to dwell on the death of his mentor, taking up a seat he doesn't feel like he wants or deserves, dealing with the death of some monsters, and then finally his secret pet project gets a report with bad news about the universe right after he's told he helps destroy the world and Emet-Selch just yells at him and tells him that he's taking him and what is essentially his daughter into custody. That didn't seem to do much good for Hermes' mental state and wasn't good for everyone else either considering he happened to be standing next to his memory obliterating machine.

[TheMightyMollusk]

Look at previous major villains we'd fought. Lahabrea is a pretty typical cackling lunatic (at least in ARR), Thordan is a typical JRPG "surprise the church is the bad guy!" villain, and Zenos is flatter than a lalafell's cup size. Gaius wasn't so bad, but Nidhogg was broken and had nothing but rage and hate left, and Yostuyu was little better. Elidibus basically didn't DO anything through most of the early game except show up, be enigmatic, and then disappear again. Even in ShB, Vauthry was entertainingly hammy, but Ran'jit was a failure as a villain. Emet was the first Ascian we see actually being a character rather than a plot device.

[SassyAssassin]

Because pretty. Because nose.

[Atelier-Bagur]

I don't think they're rightfully angry at the WoL, they should be angry at their government who's forcing them into a stupid power seeking war that's getting their own people killed. Too bad the civilians are all indoctrinated, as we've seen. Still doesn't make their anger at the WoL "right", though.

No, they clearly directly told to your face and fear you for apparently slaughtering their country men, completely forgetting or denying that their own were the ones invading and subjugating other people's lands for their own gain. Yes we know the radio indoctrinated them to feel very stubbornly patriotic and oblivious but still was a huge insult. They act as if after all they've committed that somehow the rest of the world owed them still. The Garlean chapter really tested my patience with these kind of people as they also exist in real life but whatever, it was still interesting to see how the mighty have fallen.

[RukoBoshi]

I don't think they're rightfully angry at the WoL, they should be angry at their government who's forcing them into a stupid power seeking war that's getting their own people killed. Too bad the civilians are all indoctrinated, as we've seen. Still doesn't make their anger at the WoL "right", though.

Yeah you're right. Rightfully may not be the right word. They think that way because of years of propaganda and indoctrination like you said.
Their anger is right in the sense that the WoL is the one who did kill these people, even if it was in self defense or for good reasons.

Of course, the focus of their anger should be their own government, since they are actually responsible for the reasons leading to these death.
But it's easier to blame the savages since that's kind of the modus operandi of the garleans.

[Brinne]

Emet-Selch seemed to really lack the ability to empathize with others, notice how others are feeling, or know how to de-escalate a situation.

Hard disagree on this one. Emet-Selch can rightfully be held to account for his lack of social graces and communication skills (which continues to damn him as he fumbles his way through Shadowbringers), but in terms of pure feeling, he's strongly characterized as one of the most empathetic, feeling-for-others characters in the cast, which is a large part of why he basically wound up destroying himself. Rather than being struck by his insensitivity towards Hermes, I was struck that he was going out of his way to try to be considerate to Hermes - breaking Convocation protocol to allow us at their meeting for his comfort, for example - and entertain his point of view without shooting him down even as he was being shouted at, and that Hermes's emotional outbursts seemed to trouble and linger with him more than any other character on Elpis - he simply was an utter failure at communicating any of that in a way Hermes could understand or accept, which, yes, can be partially attributed to Emet's dumb pride. But denying that he's deeply intuitively tuned into the feelings of others and can't turn it off to his own detriment kind of ignores the entire thrust of his Shadowbringers arc - "his kindness was his downfall" per Ishikawa and all that.

Examining the psychological snapback that happens, often in a deeply cruel and exaggerated way due to the overcompensation and self-hatred, when an intrinsically kind person feels "forced" to do hateful, cruel things is a lot more interesting to me personally than just mostly ascribing him as a jerk who continued to be a jerk.

[dspguy]

I felt he had great character development from his first(?) appearance in the epilogue of Stormblood (4.55?) through EW.