Please add damage meters, Yoshi P.

[PirateRyanG]

No thanks.

Damage/heal meters are toxic.

Quit Overwatch 2 when they added the stats page.

Stats don't ever tell the full story, and it encourages bad play.

They are fine in games where K/D matters.

But damage/heal meters encourage poeple to top the charts rather than actually play properly.

For example, I have seen plenty of healers 'top' the charts in games I play, but they are playing absolutely woefully. Their heals are mostly them opting not to remove themselvs from crap. Same with DPS. High DPS is great, but not if you are putting yourself in the way of death.

Then you have people bitching if you don't do a job (as per the stats), etc.

[moroarda]

No thanks.

Damage/heal meters are toxic.

Quit Overwatch 2 when they added the stats page.

Stats don't ever tell the full story, and it encourages bad play.

They are fine in games where K/D matters.

But damage/heal meters encourage poeple to top the charts rather than actually play properly.

For example, I have seen plenty of healers 'top' the charts in games I play, but they are playing absolutely woefully. Their heals are mostly them opting not to remove themselvs from crap. Same with DPS. High DPS is great, but not if you are putting yourself in the way of death.

Then you have people bitching if you don't do a job (as per the stats), etc.

How does any of this make dps meters "toxic" in any way?

Just because a few peeps misuse a tool doesn't make the tool itself bad or in any way responsible for that misuse. If someone drives a car through a group of people that's awful and (assuming they did it intentionally) they're a terrible person... but that still isn't a reason to ban cars.

[Zebraoracle]

How does any of this make dps meters "toxic" in any way?

Just because a few peeps misuse a tool doesn't make the tool itself bad or in any way responsible for that misuse. If someone drives a car through a group of people that's awful and (assuming they did it intentionally) they're a terrible person... but that still isn't a reason to ban cars.

[Insert gun control discussion here]

:P

[moroarda]

[Insert gun control discussion here]

:P

I doubt getting political is helping anything, but dps meters are also more regularly helpful than most guns - the day to day benefit of owning a gun other than a hunting rifle is often touted as just... having a gun incase someone else also has a gun or tries to commit some act of violence.

Having dps meters doesn't require someone to be a psychopath in order to see the benefit, everyone would also have them available as a learning tool to improve. There's no such immediate, universal benefit to having a gun which is why I've always found that comparison kind of silly and went with the car one instead. Cars similarly provide a helpful service constantly, so even if they're technically capable of being used in a bad way they're mostly doing a good thing and those bad uses are the outliers.

This is the same with dps meters in XIV, because I guarantee you many people you see playing are already using them and see people underperforming all the time, they're just not mean people so they aren't pointing out those inefficiencies.

Unlike driving cars through crowds of people, players will be quick to normalize judging and flaming using dps meters.
Having these metrics available will give more people something to point at and exclaim "this person is shit, let's kick them".
More people will be made aware of the disctepancy between jobs and it's going to foster a community where exclusion and minmaxing takes presedence over everything else even among casuals. If you glance over at a certain other MMO, people are getting kicked from leveling dungeons for playing the wrong spec because icyveins and their own sweaty dps meters say they suck.

I'd say this is down to a design problem though, anyone who wants to do a week 1 clear probably feels forced to use them because god forbid you use abilities in a slightly suboptimal order twice in a fight and cause a dps check fail.
And people want to emulate the top raidrs so it trickles down.

How does including dps meters somehow roll back protections against harassment in the minds of some of you people?

Even including a dps meter in the base game as a hud element wouldn't suddenly make it okay to be rude to other players based on their performance and I can't for the life of me understand how you link these two things in your mind.

There are already existing protections against harassment in the game, and including dps meters would not alter those protections in any way.

[LaylaTsarra]

How does including dps meters somehow roll back protections against harassment in the minds of some of you people?[/u]

Convince the director he knows what they mean and is opposed to officially including them. This parser discussion has been a staple of this forum for years and it's not going anywhere because he has categorially stated he does not want them.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ingame_parser/

[moroarda]

Convince the director he knows what they mean and is opposed to officially including them. This parser discussion has been a staple of this forum for years and it's not going anywhere because he has categorially stated he does not want them.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ingame_parser/

I understand his stance, but he isn't some infallible god - in this case, he's wrong, plain and simple.

I understand that we won't see official parser support because of Yoshida's opinions, but it doesn't mean I won't still argue in favor of it because it makes logical sense.

[LaylaTsarra]

I understand his stance, but he isn't some infallible god - in this case, he's wrong, plain and simple.

Oh he is not wrong and I totally agree with his stance and you are certainly entitled to your opinion but be that as it may YOU won't be getting them.

[Deceptus]

Convince the director he knows what they mean and is opposed to officially including them. This parser discussion has been a staple of this forum for years and it's not going anywhere because he has categorially stated he does not want them.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ingame_parser/

He says he doesn't want them because (paraphrasing)

1) "people might be mean".

Response: In high end content, PF style, no one is owed a group. If you don't pull your weight the party leader should have the ability to see who is being lackluster, see if they can improve, and if not kick them (This already happens because most serious raiders ALREADY use a 3rd party DPS meter). I'm talking people who are missing 10-20+ GCDs over a fight.

2) Using the excuse of "It might add more anxiety / responsibility to players"

Response: Healers have been designed with that mindset and they're a dumpster fire right now and have been for ~6 years. It's a bad design philosophy. You shouldn't design for the floor of the playerbase, the worst of the worst. You should attempt to encourage them to get better, not stay terrible.

Even if you don't use exact numbers a simple grading scale could be used. S through F. Something possibly like Final Fantasy XIII



Flawless run? S

Mechanics + good GCD management? A

Execute mechanics properly and do a decent rotation? B

Bare minimum to complete the content? About to wipe due to enrage? Probably get a C.

Get hit by multiple mechanics resulting in 4 deaths in a run? You get an F for that run.

[Kansene]

How does any of this make dps meters "toxic" in any way?

Just because a few peeps misuse a tool doesn't make the tool itself bad or in any way responsible for that misuse. If someone drives a car through a group of people that's awful and (assuming they did it intentionally) they're a terrible person... but that still isn't a reason to ban cars.

Unlike driving cars through crowds of people, players will be quick to normalize judging and flaming using dps meters.
Having these metrics available will give more people something to point at and exclaim "this person is shit, let's kick them".
More people will be made aware of the disctepancy between jobs and it's going to foster a community where exclusion and minmaxing takes presedence over everything else even among casuals. If you glance over at a certain other MMO, people are getting kicked from leveling dungeons for playing the wrong spec because icyveins and their own sweaty dps meters say they suck.

I'd say this is down to a design problem though, anyone who wants to do a week 1 clear probably feels forced to use them because god forbid you use abilities in a slightly suboptimal order twice in a fight and cause a dps check fail.
And people want to emulate the top raidrs so it trickles down.

[Magikazam]

Unlike driving cars through crowds of people, players will be quick to normalize judging and flaming using dps meters.
Having these metrics available will give more people something to point at and exclaim "this person is shit, let's kick them".
More people will be made aware of the disctepancy between jobs and it's going to foster a community where exclusion and minmaxing takes presedence over everything else even among casuals. If you glance over at a certain other MMO, people are getting kicked from leveling dungeons for playing the wrong spec because icyveins and their own sweaty dps meters say they suck.

I'd say this is down to a design problem though, anyone who wants to do a week 1 clear probably feels forced to use them because god forbid you use abilities in a slightly suboptimal order twice in a fight and cause a dps check fail.
And people want to emulate the top raidrs so it trickles down.

Sound to me you never played WoW. seriously I've been playing since WoLK and never seen ANYONE get kick out of a LEVELING dungeon cause of spec. Only happend in certain PUG that where memed at cause they usually had terrible player anyway. Also yea, I'd like a tool that let me improve my dps and let me see if someone is deadweight. If the SAM got less dps than the healer I'd like to know.