Playing an expansion as current content has been a lacklustre MMO experience

[LittleImp]

I don't know of any MMOs out there that allow you to have access to your full job kit day one.

"Jobs are not thoughtfully designed sub-levelcap, and the tuning of older encounters is very poorly maintained."

Feel free to reread what I said, as I don't think you understood my meaning. I did not say that full kits should be granted at level 1.

Maybe those complaining should stop being selfish and allow their friends to explore the game at their own pace just as they originally got to (unless they had been recruited to the game by a similarly selfish friend and didn't know how to enforce boundaries).

I dislike what you are implying here. It's typically new players that complain about this issue. I see it frequently in the NN, my FCs and on platforms like Reddit or the OF. Many groups of friends that try to get into this game together get frustrated by the lack of cooperative interaction during the mandatory MSQ.

If the friend has no interest in the leveling experience, then the job boost and story skip are available. Keep in mind that SE is aware that the length of the MSQ can be a problem for players new to the game and they've announced they're working on something to address that. Hopefully it will be ready for 7.0.

Expensive. The game needs a new streamlined, optional entry point.

WoW stopped adding cooperative quests years ago and moved to solo questing.

Feel free to read my response to someone else above. Virtually every task in WoW can be completed with friends, and in most expansions your actions directly contribute to eachothers progression.

I think your problem is you're so focused on combat as being the only form of game play (which it isn't), you overlook the value of shared experiences with friends whether or not combat is involved.

The mandatory MSQ is mostly cutscenes, a small amount of combat content, and an infinitesimally small amount of anything else (like those dumb telescope quests). Combat just happens to be the most cooperative part of the MSQ as it is currently designed, so it's what we end up talking about on 14. I'd be plenty happy to see more cooperative, non-combat stuff in the game as well, but it's really just.. not a thing.


btw, cutscenes aren't actually gameplay.

[Raven2014]

The mandatory MSQ is mostly cutscenes, a small amount of combat content, and an infinitesimally small amount of anything else (like those dumb telescope quests). Combat just happens to be the most cooperative part of the MSQ as it is currently designed, so it's what we end up talking about on 14. I'd be plenty happy to see more cooperative, non-combat stuff in the game as well, but it's really just.. not a thing.

And ?

This is Final Fantasy style story telling for like a few decades now. You may not like it, but this is what unique to FF14, this is what make its narrative more powerful then the MMO standard, and this is what make me and other love it.

I just feel you don't want a FF style game, you want a WoW clone with a FF aesthetic?

[DPZ2]

Feel free to read my response to someone else above. Virtually every task in WoW can be completed with friends, and in most expansions your actions directly contribute to each others progression.

With one exception. Consider - there are five friends playing. Four of them are new to the game. Two want to start as Horde Trolls. Two want to start as Alliance Night Elves. The experienced player plays a Horde Blood Elf fire mage. Under what circumstances can all five level together via Party Sync and still satisfy the desires of everyone?

It took 18 years for WoW to allow players to create parties (raids, PvP, dungeons) consisting of both Horde and Alliance players.

[ForteNightshade]

And ?

This is Final Fantasy style story telling for like a few decades now. You may not like it, but this is what unique to FF14, this is what make its narrative more powerful then the MMO standard, and this is what make me and other love it.

I just feel you don't want a FF style game, you want a WoW clone with a FF aesthetic?

Every single player Final Fantasy title has more gameplay mixed into than the MSQ of FFXIV. Even cut scene heavy entries like FFX split their story segments up with gameplay, albeit less so than others. The issue with FFXIV is that outside of the occasional dungeon, which is bogged down a severely stripped combat system due to them taking forever and a day for jobs to actually get anywhere near their full kits, there isn't anything to do gameplay wise if you're following the story. And said story is mandatory to unlock almost every feature in the game.

Pointing out there is less gameplay interaction, especially from a cooperative perspective, isn't asking for a WoW clone. It's acknowledging the MSQ is more akin to an interactive novel and that some players would prefer more emphasise on playing the game itself than reading it/listening to cut scenes. That doesn't mean they dislike the story nor does the "It's a Final Fantasy game!!!" argument hold water when other Final Fantasy games have accomplished precisely that.

[DPZ2]

It's acknowledging the MSQ is more akin to an interactive novel

If the developers of the game want it to be this way, players accept that choice or not. It isn't a question of "please turn your game into something it's currently not".

The majority of gamers I've encountered over the years actually play other games along with any MMORPG they're playing. Many play multiple MMORPGs. I've done that, my friends have done that. Some dropped out of one game or another after years in a game. It's a cycle that does not require a reorientation of the game being dropped.

Unlike every other major MMORPG I've played, FFXIV requires you to participate in dungeon instances. That is a good thing.

Like every other major MMORPG I've played, FFXIV works well for single players who don't want to "group up" for every bit of content. It allows people to play the game on their own schedule, rather than a group schedule. That's not a defect.

Cooperative play in MMORPGs is best served by games which emphasize open world PvP.

[LittleImp]

And ?

This is Final Fantasy style story telling for like a few decades now. You may not like it, but this is what unique to FF14, this is what make its narrative more powerful then the MMO standard, and this is what make me and other love it.

I just feel you don't want a FF style game, you want a WoW clone with a FF aesthetic?

I do not want this game to be a WoW clone; I want it to live up to the potential I see in the things that I like about it, and I want to be able to cooperate more with friends whom I try to bring into this game, which is marketed as an MMORPG.

It is overwhelmingly difficult to get friends into this game because of the various barriers its design creates. Not only do you have to tell new players "Yeah, you'll make it to this polished content we're talking about every day in about 200 hours", but they also have to stomach "Don't worry the game gets good after the first 50 hours".

The game has existed in states where the MSQ was much more manageable. Let's not act like this game has always been this way; It's become a bloated accretion of multiple expansions and patches over a long period time, and there is an increasing need for it to be addressed.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Every single player Final Fantasy title has more gameplay mixed into than the MSQ of FFXIV. Even cut scene heavy entries like FFX split their story segments up with gameplay, albeit less so than others. The issue with FFXIV is that outside of the occasional dungeon, which is bogged down a severely stripped combat system due to them taking forever and a day for jobs to actually get anywhere near their full kits, there isn't anything to do gameplay wise if you're following the story. And said story is mandatory to unlock almost every feature in the game.

Pointing out there is less gameplay interaction, especially from a cooperative perspective, isn't asking for a WoW clone. It's acknowledging the MSQ is more akin to an interactive novel and that some players would prefer more emphasise on playing the game itself than reading it/listening to cut scenes. That doesn't mean they dislike the story nor does the "It's a Final Fantasy game!!!" argument hold water when other Final Fantasy games have accomplished precisely that.

Its balanced out by the fact that you can always take a break and do some content you've unlocked in the middle of the story unlike its single player brothers and sisters where you're always stuck in whatever part of the story you are at. Which is why the story quests are structured that way because you HAVE THAT CHOICE to always do optional stuff.

[DPZ2]

The game has existed in states where the MSQ was much more manageable. Let's not act like this game has always been this way; It's become a bloated accretion of multiple expansions and patches over a long period time, and there is an increasing need for it to be addressed.

World of Warcraft's solution to the problem, after, um, 16+ years of multiple expansions and patches over a long period of time was "just ditch it all, the story doesn't matter, the lore doesn't matter, players want to get to end game. Period". The level squish and the rewriting of the History of Azeroth resulted in Shadowlands, one big "what's going on here?" followed by a big "just go with it, it doesn't matter. you're here to raid, right?!?" It took 15 years to get Party Sync, which has yet to address the Horde vs. Alliance leveling problem.

[Raven2014]

Pointing out there is less gameplay interaction, especially from a cooperative perspective, isn't asking for a WoW clone. It's acknowledging the MSQ is more akin to an interactive novel and that some players would prefer more emphasise on playing the game itself than reading it/listening to cut scenes. That doesn't mean they dislike the story nor does the "It's a Final Fantasy game!!!" argument hold water when other Final Fantasy games have accomplished precisely that.

Like I said, and?

What you don't understand here is the reason why what you describing sound like a problem to you is because you see it as problem. For me that just one big fat + point. An expansion pack come out every 2.5 - 3 years, and a new story patch comes out every 3-4 months. In between I can do co-operative contents as much as I want to the point of ad nauseam. The MSQ is my personal break from that.


Also, I don't know why people keeping bringing up it's an MMO as a beating stick as if it's somehow make their point. Yeah, FF14 is an MMORPG, which is totally the norm for it to have single player segments. It's not a MOBA type of game where 100% of the gameplay have to be co-operative.

[Deveryn]

Also, I don't know why people keeping bringing up it's an MMO as a beating stick as if it's somehow make their point. Yeah, FF14 is an MMORPG, which is totally the norm for it to have single player segments. It's not a MOBA type of game where 100% of the gameplay have to be co-operative.

It's a weird interpretation of the MM part that's been around for years. They don't understand / accept that it simply means a massive number of people can play at the same time.