What even is the purpose of all those non melee/blm jobs?

[Valence]

In theory this would be fine, I'd even support giving ranged physical dps an actual role besides "does low damage for no reason but gives 1% stat increase so we take one" but the gameplay reality would be that you're now making 1 role responsible for your party's success in any content that isn't faceroll.

I don't even trust physical ranged players in my pugs to press their 1 mitigation cooldown consistently, let alone bait mechanics that their role in particular is perfectly designed for (anyone remember bards refusing to do the missle bait during Pantokrator 2 in O11S?).

With mitigation being probably the most important aspect of high end content I do not want to leave all of it in the hands of a single role whose competency then determines whether or not we even get to see enrage.

Are you seriously saying that rphys players are unable to perform properly?

[Azuri]

Are you seriously saying that rphys players are unable to perform properly?

Competent players tend to dislike phys ranged and usually the role is a bit of a "hot potato" people rotate every tier in serious statics.

Also doesn't help that it is objectively correct to give your weakest player phys ranged spot.

[FireMage]

Are you seriously saying that rphys players are unable to perform properly?

No, but it is the easiest DPS role, that attracts a certain type of player

[Absurdity]

Are you seriously saying that rphys players are unable to perform properly?

A lot of them simply aren't. Physical ranged is generally perceived as the easy role, whether or not this is actually true is irrelevant. The perception of it being the easy/forgiving role makes underperforming players gravitate towards it and what you end up with is a lot of bad physical ranged players in your pugs.


But this isn't even exclusively about physical ranged, I wouldn't trust any other role to be the sole provider of mitigation either, it is too important in our current raid environment to leave it up to a single player.
You can survive a job forgetting to use their 10% mitigation cooldown, you can not survive when that job suddenly provides all of your mitigation.

[Mithron]

No, but it is the easiest DPS role, that attracts a certain type of player

I find RDM infinitely easier than BRD ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[ForteNightshade]

Are you seriously saying that rphys players are unable to perform properly?

To borrow the example Absurdity brought up: JP outright forced PLD/DRK to invuln Pantokrator because it was "easier" than having BRD/MCH do it.

For a more recent example, look no further than P1S. The sheer amount of Prange who either didn't know how to flex or outright refused and expected the tanks to take a damage down was staggering. It isn't that Prange players as a whole can't do it but rather the role attracts a lot of extremely lazy players who won't.

[Shurrikhan]

When I hear that "harder, more complex" jobs should deal more damage than less complex ones, I get a response flash in my head.

So why are melee doing more damage than ranged physical?

Because every melee, even if not necessarily all that complex, is at least more complex than every physical ranged?

When they were closer in complexity, they were also that much closer in rDPS (even if MCH was generally slightly "underpaid," so to speak, for its Stormblood complexity, mostly just due to optimal Overheat usage not being rewarded quite enough).

[Azuri]

Because every melee, even if not necessarily all that complex, is at least more complex than every physical ranged?

When they were closer in complexity, they were also that much closer in rDPS (even if MCH was generally slightly "underpaid," so to speak, for its Stormblood complexity, mostly just due to optimal Overheat usage not being rewarded quite enough).

Looks at current bard... then at the size of Agdistis' hitbox. And every other hitbox.

I don't know about that one, chief.

[Shurrikhan]

Looks at current bard... then at the size of Agdistis' hitbox. And every other hitbox.

I don't know about that one, chief.

I'm not talking about anything inherent to being melee / restricted to melee range.

I'm talking about NIN, MNK, SAM, DRG, RPR, the jobs that happen to be melee. They are each more complex to optimize up to some 95% of theoretical performance than are BRD, DNC, or especially MCH.

[Azuri]

I'm talking talking about anything inherent to being melee / restricted to melee range.

I'm talking about NIN, MNK, SAM, DRG, RPR, the jobs that happen to be melee. They are each more complex to optimize up to some 95% of theoretical performance than are BRD, DNC, or especially MCH.

Whole arena is melee range these days. So you know, irrelevant.

And yeah, 123 for 45 seconds followed by just press everything in the next 15 seconds is very hard indeed. Or you know an entirely fixed static rotation like MCH... Or DRG.