Playing an expansion as current content has been a lacklustre MMO experience

[RobynDaBank]

It's funny to come from the WoW forums and find threads saying there's nothing to do until M+/Raid release and the game is shallow without them (even people saying they want the re-implementation of WQs being daily to get them to log on), and then to come here and see WoW being touted as the game that solved the content problem. There people cite "9 expansions worth of old content" as content, and yet saying Eureka/Bozja for example are content will get me burnt on a stake?

This isn't a "WoW bad" argument. Okay, maybe it sounds like it definitely is. But at least I think in today's information era of walkthroughs and optimal-play guides, with people on the first days of Endwalker launch telling me that they played for 36 hours straight with no sleep, with such quick consumption even in WoW where people raced to 70 and are already crying that there's no content without M+/Raids releasing yet... maybe it's just a varied opinion with a group insistent on saying that the correct one is "not enough".

[Raven2014]

It's funny to come from the WoW forums and find threads saying there's nothing to do until M+/Raid release and the game is shallow without them (even people saying they want the re-implementation of WQs being daily to get them to log on), and then to come here and see WoW being touted as the game that solved the content problem. There people cite "9 expansions worth of old content" as content, and yet saying Eureka/Bozja for example are content will get me burnt on a stake?

It's either "the grass is always greener on the other side" syndrome, or the "my woe is always the most miserable one" syndrome.

I have similar observation, and it's not limited to WoW. Literally every other MMO forums, people complain why the Dev does not "innovate" the same way FF14, and how they're bleeding players to FF14. This forum is like the only place you hear some people claim FF14 is dated and at risk of losing players to their competitors.

[Johners]

It's funny to come from the WoW forums and find threads saying there's nothing to do until M+/Raid release and the game is shallow without them (even people saying they want the re-implementation of WQs being daily to get them to log on), and then to come here and see WoW being touted as the game that solved the content problem. There people cite "9 expansions worth of old content" as content, and yet saying Eureka/Bozja for example are content will get me burnt on a stake?

This isn't a "WoW bad" argument. Okay, maybe it sounds like it definitely is. But at least I think in today's information era of walkthroughs and optimal-play guides, with people on the first days of Endwalker launch telling me that they played for 36 hours straight with no sleep, with such quick consumption even in WoW where people raced to 70 and are already crying that there's no content without M+/Raids releasing yet... maybe it's just a varied opinion with a group insistent on saying that the correct one is "not enough".

WoW has a staggered launch like any modern MMO expansion so it's not a sprint to the finish. Endwalker had the same gap between initial levelling and story content to the first raid tier opening.

As for the old content argument, it's partly true and depends on how it's made available. XIV heavily leans on old content being a mandatory part of the end game experience to cap tomestones (as you'll often get old duties in your queues). Not to mention the tighter stat curve means much less of the old content is soloable.

I don't mind the scaling, at times anyway. WoW does this via timewalking which is a monthly event that rotates expansions. It is, however, just bonus content and new ways to unlock certain rewards from older expansions. They also put dungeons from older expansions into the Mythic+ rotation now.

However, if I wanted to farm old dungeons and raids for transmog (glamour), pets and mounts? That's a much better experience in WoW than XIV. For a start, the collection catalogues are better in WoW. Beyond that, old instances actually have "hidden mechanics" so to speak that ensures they're soloable. Damage multipliers and triggers so boss mechanics that require multiple people don't occur if you're soloing.

XIV on the other hand still has tons of old content that's not soloable and in some cases you still need full groups. Now, I'm not expecting old deep dungeons or Eureka to open up so I can waltz in at level 90 and murder everything... but extra quality of life changes wouldn't be too much to ask for either. Old relics are an activity for glamour not player power at this stage, none of them should take as long as they still do. It's mindless grinding and not a substitute for modern content like Mythic+ in WoW.

[Carin-Eri]

It's funny to come from the WoW forums and find threads saying there's nothing to do until M+/Raid release and the game is shallow without them (even people saying they want the re-implementation of WQs being daily to get them to log on), and then to come here and see WoW being touted as the game that solved the content problem. There people cite "9 expansions worth of old content" as content, and yet saying Eureka/Bozja for example are content will get me burnt on a stake?

This isn't a "WoW bad" argument. Okay, maybe it sounds like it definitely is. But at least I think in today's information era of walkthroughs and optimal-play guides, with people on the first days of Endwalker launch telling me that they played for 36 hours straight with no sleep, with such quick consumption even in WoW where people raced to 70 and are already crying that there's no content without M+/Raids releasing yet... maybe it's just a varied opinion with a group insistent on saying that the correct one is "not enough".

Agreed, and in the context of this thread I do feel it's a shame that many players are often in such a big hurry to get to Endgame, particularly when some of them find themselves not really knowing what to do with themselves when they get there . I have at least one friend who seems desperate to get there despite me repeatedly telling them to just soak-up and savor the story.

Heck, the number of people I've seen make comments along the lines of "I wish I could erase my memory of the MSQ so I could experience it all again through a newbie's eyes".... and you can't help but wonder whether what some of them are actually saying is 'I wish I hadn't rushed through the whole thing'.

[VelKallor]

Heck, the number of people I've seen make comments along the lines of "I wish I could erase my memory of the MSQ so I could experience it all again through a newbie's eyes".... and you can't help but wonder whether what some of them are actually saying is 'I wish I hadn't rushed through the whole thing'.

A lot of them, one friend comes to mind, allowed themselves to be pressured into speedrunning MSQ "so he can come tank for us in raiding"..I met him again a few months later, the bitterness in his tone ( the static broke up because "they got bored" ) when he realised the gigantic mistake he had made has always stayed with me.

WOW's BIGGEST failing, the one HUMUNGOUS elephant is the mentality "game starts at max level" along with "Raid, do m plus or pvp thats what WOW is for" has translated over , despite our best efforts to dissuade them, into the same mentality here.

Theres. NO. HURRY.,

There is no FOMO.

The content will still be there ( aside from seasonal which changes up ), ALL OF IT. Coils, Bozja, Ivalice, ARR, YoshiP is NOT the type to get a damned chainsaw and carve out huge swathes of content..thank the Twelve.

WOWs devs said once that they focus on SHORT TERM content, they fail to look long term...I find myself asking over and over again what WOW would be like if all of it was still there, still doable..the game would be a lot more fun.

As it is even their latest expac is showing the seams, rep grinds to be allowed to see the rest of the story

Professions, notably alchemy, where the "experiment table" is laced with RNG so it blows up, leaving the player with a 4 hr cooldown, and no guarantee it wont happen again..and again..and again.

FF 14 has a load of content to do whenever and however you feel like, WOW is "do it now before the devs yank it away forever"

modern content like Mythic+ in WoW.

That "modern content" is the source and direct cause of a huge amount of toxicity, screaming tantrums, foulmouthed tirades, merciless kicking and abuse for making ONE mistake.

We can do without it.

[Hafu]

WoW has a staggered launch like any modern MMO expansion so it's not a sprint to the finish. Endwalker had the same gap between initial levelling and story content to the first raid tier opening.

As for the old content argument, it's partly true and depends on how it's made available. XIV heavily leans on old content being a mandatory part of the end game experience to cap tomestones (as you'll often get old duties in your queues). Not to mention the tighter stat curve means much less of the old content is soloable.

I don't mind the scaling, at times anyway. WoW does this via timewalking which is a monthly event that rotates expansions. It is, however, just bonus content and new ways to unlock certain rewards from older expansions. They also put dungeons from older expansions into the Mythic+ rotation now.

However, if I wanted to farm old dungeons and raids for transmog (glamour), pets and mounts? That's a much better experience in WoW than XIV. For a start, the collection catalogues are better in WoW. Beyond that, old instances actually have "hidden mechanics" so to speak that ensures they're soloable. Damage multipliers and triggers so boss mechanics that require multiple people don't occur if you're soloing.

XIV on the other hand still has tons of old content that's not soloable and in some cases you still need full groups. Now, I'm not expecting old deep dungeons or Eureka to open up so I can waltz in at level 90 and murder everything... but extra quality of life changes wouldn't be too much to ask for either. Old relics are an activity for glamour not player power at this stage, none of them should take as long as they still do. It's mindless grinding and not a substitute for modern content like Mythic+ in WoW.

Older content is only "mandatory" for capping tome tones because that's how you've freely chosen to do it.

If you combine doing the expert one for EW dungeons only with some hunt trains that are happening more or less daily on the DC you're on you'll be flying through your weekly 450 allowance at a pace engaging with the rest of the roulettes have no chance at matching.

[Johners]

A lot of them, one friend comes to mind, allowed themselves to be pressured into speedrunning MSQ "so he can come tank for us in raiding"..I met him again a few months later, the bitterness in his tone ( the static broke up because "they got bored" ) when he realised the gigantic mistake he had made has always stayed with me.

WOW's BIGGEST failing, the one HUMUNGOUS elephant is the mentality "game starts at max level" along with "Raid, do m plus or pvp thats what WOW is for" has translated over , despite our best efforts to dissuade them, into the same mentality here.

All MMOs are end game MMOs. The story in XIV is a one time experience and then everything else is just better left to once you hit cap and have finished the MSQ. Arguably a lot of it is more convenient to play that way as well. I couldn't imagine levelling DoH/DoL as I go along, it's much quicker to do everything when you're capped and making use of Diadem. Likewise you'd earn enough Gil while levelling to make getting certain crafted pieces easier to really make profession levelling straightforward.

Besides, levelling is only a journey when the game is new and nobody is going to launch an expansion that adds months of levelling, for the average player at least, to reach a new end game.

As for WoW removing systems and content, yeah that's a flaw with their modular design but they've also admitted it's a mistake and will be moving on from that kind of system design. I'd like to see certain legacy content return but I doubt it'll happen any time soon.

That "modern content" is the source and direct cause of a huge amount of toxicity, screaming tantrums, foulmouthed tirades, merciless kicking and abuse for making ONE mistake.

XIV is just as toxic as WoW is plus honestly, WoW is nowhere near as toxic as people make out. The "problem" in WoW comes from the majority of group finder (party finder in XIV) users thinking they're better than they actually are.

Maybe I should put that on a billboard...

[ForteNightshade]

You're the one overanalyzing (maybe half of) everything and breaking it down into blocks of time. To me that sounds like deadlines and racing. It's only natural that you have less/no fun. You've already got your sights set on the end. You miss all the fun to be had in the game (and probably in life if that's your mindset).

The only time I'm concerned about is when I have to log off for something. The content has as much longevity as you allow for it. Of course, there's no magic. You just sit back, relax and enjoy. I helped a friend do variant one day. We stopped in between and chatted and took some breaks. I couldn't tell you how much time we spent... just that it was after noon, then it was dark out. That is how you play the game and have fun.

There is a whole lot of very baseless assumptions going on here.

Citing the estimation of how long content in a given patch cycle last has nothing to do with deadlining or racing whatsoever. It's simply an acknowledge of the given longevity of a patch. Whether it takes you two weeks or two months, it doesn't change that content has almost no longevity in this game. That doesn't speak to its quality. Nor does it even insinuate that everything has to stretch out. It's simply looking at a four month cycle which we pay for and criticising how quickly content get be consumed. I don't think it's unreasonable to say that aforementioned four month cycle shouldn't be over in two weeks unless I artificially drag it out.

Everything else you said is straight up nonsense. That isn't longevity. It's the equivalent of saying talking about a game on reddit suddenly adds hundreds of hours to the game itself. Now that doesn't mean you can't enjoy it that way. Those are two very different scenarios and arguments though. Ultimately, that is how you play the game. Which is entirely your prerogative. It doesn't make the actual content itself longer.

[Deveryn]

There is a whole lot of very bareless assumptions going on here.

Citing the estimation of how long content in a given patch cycle last has nothing to do with deadlining or racing whatsoever. It's simply an acknowledge of the given longevity of a patch. Whether it takes you two weeks or two months, it doesn't change that content has almost no longevity in this game. That doesn't speak to its quality. Nor does it even insinuate that everything has to stretch out. It's simply looking at a four month cycle which we pay for and criticising how quickly content get be consumed. I don't think it's unreasonable to say that aforementioned four month cycle shouldn't be over in two weeks unless I artificially drag it out.

Everything else you said is straight up nonsense. That isn't longevity. It's the equivalent of saying talking about a game on reddit suddenly adds hundreds of hours to the game itself. Now that doesn't mean you can't enjoy it that way. Those are two very different scenarios and arguments though. Ultimately, that is how you play the game. Which is entirely your prerogative. It doesn't make the actual content itself longer.

The irony of responding to supposed nonsense with actual nonsense. You seem to be misreading a bit there. Have a nice weekend.

[DrWho2010]

there is a clear disconnect for paying for content and paying for a service in terms of objectiveness vs subjectiveness. some people like Fort Night Shade believe there should be enough objective content that lasts, where as someone like Deveryn sees the game as more of a way to spend time doing whatever they want socially while playing the game subjectively.

both are valid opinions, but there is also no wrong answer either.