The Venat Cutscene

[thegreatonemal]

Could be. I’m more curious of how a person can a) be turned into a primal (Elidabus-> Zodiark), and then b) exit the primal and both exist at once. Like..is it an Attack on Titan body summon thing?

Or is the Elidabus we know not actually original Elidabus, but a primal created by the other Ascians in an attempt to resurrect him? (I think this, personally)

The thing we know as Elidabus is a primal brought about. Which is why he's having memory issues in 5.3

[kaynide]

The thing we know as Elidabus is a primal brought about. Which is why he's having memory issues in 5.3

My meaning is that, is he a summoned primal (with no actual history prior to being summoned by the Ascians), or is the original Elidabus actually in Elidabus the Primal (in the same way the primals Shiva/Phoenix/Hydaelyn are still their original host)

We either have
A) He was summoned/created whole cloth by the Ascians or
B) He was extracted/removed from Zodiark, but remained a primal. (Original Elidabus, but primal version like Phoenix)

[SannaR]

I think he's B. In one of the Tales from it's explained that part of why he's losing memories is that he's not occasionally looking at the convocation stones. Half asking half stating why should he when he'll just end up forgetting them again and again. That in his mind if they were really important ones they'd be the ones that weren't being forgotten.

[Cleretic]

Does that mean Ysayle was just a much weaker version of Venat and Elidibus?

Shiva was the first we saw of what I generally call 'channeled primals'; basically a primal summoned around and controlled by one person, rather than summoned as an external entity. See also: King Thordan and his Knights Twelve, Tsukuyomi, the Warrior of Light trial boss in a complicated nesting doll situation, the historical Queen Gunnhildr but not the 'present-day' version controlled by Misija, Anima, and Shinryu the second time but not the first.

When classifying primals I generally give Zodiark and Hydaelyn their own category entirely, because the context and conversation around them is so radically different. But if we try to drill down purely into the facts of their summoning, we can say with some confidence that Hydaelyn probably was a channeled primal like that. Zodiark is a much more bizarre situation to the point where I can't be reasonably confident without seeing the actual context of the summoning, but I also think it's even less valuable a classification because of it. Given the context in which Zodiark exists for 99% of the game's story, does it matter that he was originally something roughly akin to King Thordan, during a period in which nothing of relevance to the core story happened?

I do not think the WoL is so blind of the negative effects of primals to let themselves become one even briefly, but it's theoretically not impossible, I guess, in the same way it's theoretically possible that Alphinaud might melt next patch.

[Necrotica]

I doubt the WoL would have much choice in the matter. Phoenix man did not.

I was almost wondering if we at some point were going to become some kind of Zodiark Hydaelyn fusion primal when facing Endsinger. Would explain how that one art piece was a 'spoiler' but then never ended up being one.

[Cleretic]

It shows two thirds of the trial designs, both of which only appeared at the actual trial in the game itself, and basically confirmed that Hydaelyn would be an active enough player to have a body and design. You don't have to make a weird nonsense reach (that would make for an absolutely terrible trial design, on top of it) to explain why that was spoilers before Endwalker's release, even without going into artwork analysis that art was a functional spoiler, albeit an oblique one.

[Kirisu]

I doubt the WoL would have much choice in the matter. Phoenix man did not.

Pretty sure he did actually, Summoning doesn't really have any power if the Summoner doesn't have an intent and a purpose for the resulting creation. Louisoix turned into Phoenix because he wasn't content with what he had done, knowing he could do more, and the aether was still there to attempt another summoning, but a less determined man would've just passed on by then. If he hadn't had the necessary conviction to keep fighting for the best resolution against all odds then that's exactly what would've happened.

You can't really force someone who lacks either intent or conviction to repeat the feat, the closest you could get I suppose is like when Garuda made the Amal'jaa and Kobold prisoners summon their gods, (at the expense of their lives, which rather defeats the purpose for them, not that they could've known they'd deplete themselves attempting the ritual without any crystals to supplement the necessary aether.) but tthey already had both, she just gave them a little encouragement to use them.

[Necrotica]

Pretty sure he did actually, Summoning doesn't really have any power if the Summoner doesn't have an intent and a purpose for the resulting creation. Louisoix turned into Phoenix because he wasn't content with what he had done, knowing he could do more, and the aether was still there to attempt another summoning, but a less determined man would've just passed on by then. If he hadn't had the necessary conviction to keep fighting for the best resolution against all odds then that's exactly what would've happened.

You can't really force someone who lacks either intent or conviction to repeat the feat, the closest you could get I suppose is like when Garuda made the Amal'jaa and Kobold prisoners summon their gods, (at the expense of their lives, which rather defeats the purpose for them, not that they could've known they'd deplete themselves attempting the ritual without any crystals to supplement the necessary aether.) but tthey already had both, she just gave them a little encouragement to use them.

Sacrificing oneself to summon a god to punish your tormenters would not necessarily defeat the purpose.

And I would hope that the WoL would jump at the chance to become a primal even if only temporarily. To fully understand what they have fought so often just because others told them it was the right thing to do. To realize they have been lied to and manipulated into striking down beings based on a Garlean lie promoted by ascians to stoke conflict.

There is zero evidence other than 'the garleans said so' that the Burn was actually caused by primal summonings.

Yes primals are bad cause the brainwashing, but the bs that they would kill the planet needs to be addressed in official lore and quickly.

[SannaR]

It's been addressed in the lore though. We also know the true reason why the burn is the way it is. Heck we have a primal that sealed themselves off from the world cause actual use of it would drain the land dry within seconds. Primals that aren't Hydelean and Zodiark need a constant feed of aether. If not also a smidge of dynamis cause what else are you really going to label prayer and or faith as?

[Alien_Gamer]

Yes primals are bad cause the brainwashing, but the bs that they would kill the planet needs to be addressed in official lore and quickly.

Eorzean Encyclopedia Volume 1, Page 11, Primals, 3rd paragraph. Its explicitly stated in the most official lore SE has for the game.
"The aether required in the summoning and maintaining of the creatures corporeal form, will, without fail, draw overmuch from the surrounding environments life energy, turning once lush areas into wastelands and disrupting the very balance of the world itself."

Next time, try google.