Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent. 2.0

[Tale_Schmitt]

There is a lot of relatively low (50-70) tanks in DF who doesn't seem to have a clue how healers work.

They just dash ahead getting constant chip damage and get out of healing reach. Enemy tailing them stops for a AOE, I have to wait that and the tank just runs ahead.

When I get where the tank is they have about 10% health left. It is a challenge to try to recover with some lvl 50-60 healer that isn't WHM.

The pull size isn't the problem, it's not waiting for the heals.

[AnotherPerson]

There is a lot of relatively low (50-70) tanks in DF who doesn't seem to have a clue how healers work.

They just dash ahead getting constant chip damage and get out of healing reach. Enemy tailing them stops for a AOE, I have to wait that and the tank just runs ahead.

When I get where the tank is they have about 10% health left. It is a challenge to try to recover with some lvl 50-60 healer that isn't WHM.

The pull size isn't the problem, it's not waiting for the heals.

Imo, you probably want to use sprint so you can always catch up to the tank. If there's an AoE in the way, just run through it unless it's lethal. 9 times out of 10, you can run through the aoe fast enough. On the off chance you don't, taking one or two hits is okay as a healer since you have potent AoE healing and all mobs should be aggro'd to the tank rather than you so no auto attacks will land on you even if you don't heal yourself for a while. It's more detrimental to delay catching up to the tank because you not catching up to the tank means you are the one delaying the heals instead. It becomes a problem on your end rather than a tank's end, especially if they aren't sprinting. Even if you were to lag behind a bit, they shouldn't be taking nearly as much damage to be reduced to 10% HP unless you're super far behind.

If they are sprinting though, they should be nowhere taking as much damage to reach 10% HP. Mobs can't run faster than a player during sprint. Sprint is an effective mitigation tool on its own during big pulls to prevent chip damage.

[NekoMataMata]

There is a lot of relatively low (50-70) tanks in DF who doesn't seem to have a clue how healers work.

They just dash ahead getting constant chip damage and get out of healing reach. Enemy tailing them stops for a AOE, I have to wait that and the tank just runs ahead.

When I get where the tank is they have about 10% health left. It is a challenge to try to recover with some lvl 50-60 healer that isn't WHM.

The pull size isn't the problem, it's not waiting for the heals.

If you're playing Sage then the tank shouldn't be able to dash out of your reach since you have Icarus. If it's level 56+ and your tank is a war then they don't really need to wait on you either, raw intuition will hold them over easily until you get within reach.

Make sure to throw your pre-pull regen/shields up and just try to keep up. Every healer has a handful of small instant heals by level 50 except for AST who is sitting on only essentially dignity, but you don't shouldn't reach the point where you need WHM's Bene just to save them from dying.

Tanks in general shouldn't be losing their HP that much by the time you reach them either, assuming they're sprinting and you're not. Either they're not using mitigations or something else is happening.

[Tiramu]

If you're playing Sage then the tank shouldn't be able to dash out of your reach since you have Icarus. If it's level 56+ and your tank is a war then they don't really need to wait on you either, raw intuition will hold them over easily until you get within reach.

Make sure to throw your pre-pull regen/shields up and just try to keep up. Every healer has a handful of small instant heals by level 50 except for AST who is sitting on only essentially dignity, but you don't shouldn't reach the point where you need WHM's Bene just to save them from dying.

Tanks in general shouldn't be losing their HP that much by the time you reach them either, assuming they're sprinting and you're not. Either they're not using mitigations or something else is happening.

This is the thing though, its this and the "something else" is often gear. There are plenty of tanks who attempt w2w because thats whats expected of them but arent geared up for it, or dont know how to use their mitigations properly.

[Azuri]

There is a lot of relatively low (50-70) tanks in DF who doesn't seem to have a clue how healers work.

They just dash ahead getting constant chip damage and get out of healing reach. Enemy tailing them stops for a AOE, I have to wait that and the tank just runs ahead.

When I get where the tank is they have about 10% health left. It is a challenge to try to recover with some lvl 50-60 healer that isn't WHM.

The pull size isn't the problem, it's not waiting for the heals.

Need help finding "W" on your keyboard?

[Tale_Schmitt]

Can't heal when running. Stop to heal, they run out of range. And finally, they use the tank jump and get even farther out of reach. So I donknow how to sprint.

[NekoMataMata]

This is the thing though, its this and the "something else" is often gear. There are plenty of tanks who attempt w2w because thats whats expected of them but arent geared up for it, or dont know how to use their mitigations properly.

Gear does make a lot of difference. Even with ilvl caps, the difference between a tank in gear that barely clears the cap and a tank that's at the cap is insane.

Can't heal when running. Stop to heal, they run out of range. And finally, they use the tank jump and get even farther out of reach. So I donknow how to sprint.

At level 50-60+ every single healer has at least one healing spell that they can use while moving. WHM's lillies might be GCD but they are still instant cast that can be done while you're moving. Worse case scenario is if you're AST and you pop essential dignity and have lightspeed on cd, or you're a whm at the start of the dungeon without any lillies yet.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt earlier and now I'm questioning it...

[Gemina]

There is a lot of relatively low (50-70) tanks in DF who doesn't seem to have a clue how healers work.

Likewise for healers who don't know how tanks work. I would even go as far to say that any healer who really wants to separate themselves from the mediocre to spend a good amount of time tanking in this game. Vice versa for tank mains to play healers. When you understand the strengths and limitations of each role, you're increased awareness just makes you a better player overall.

With that out of the way, I understand your pain. However, there is an expectation for tanks to play exactly like that in dungeons. They are even designed to do it. Sprint, gap closers, plethora of mitigation abilities, ease of gathering enmity on all targets, and an invuln. Tanks are just not playing up to their strengths if they are not doing/using these things.

SGE's ability 'Icarus' has been godsend for me, and I wish the other healers also had closers, but this ability by itself gives SGE a distinctive advantage in dungeons on par with WHM's holy. Ok, maybe not that good, but it's still a very good tool to have for multiple situations. If you're not SGE, then a good rule of thumb is to keep sprint on CD during trash pulls.

[Azuri]

Can't heal when running. Stop to heal, they run out of range. And finally, they use the tank jump and get even farther out of reach. So I donknow how to sprint.

Did you just claim that sage (sic!) can't heal while running? You know, the one job that gets to GCD shield on the move?

I think you might need a prescription for your skill issue.

[Tale_Schmitt]

When you understand the strengths and limitations of each role, you're increased awareness just makes you a better player overall.

I wholeheartedly agree, I think everybody should try at least one character from a different class. That was one of the reasons I started Gunbreaker which I have at lvl 82 atm. I know very well how easy it is just to get lost in the speed and just go ahead and forgot all about the team behind. I've had to learn a rhythm of pulling and stopping to wait so people can catch up.

With that out of the way, I understand your pain. However, there is an expectation for tanks to play exactly like that in dungeons. They are even designed to do it. Sprint, gap closers, plethora of mitigation abilities, ease of gathering enmity on all targets, and an invuln. Tanks are just not playing up to their strengths if they are not doing/using these things. SGE's ability 'Icarus' has been godsend for me, and I wish the other healers also had closers, but this ability by itself gives SGE a distinctive advantage in dungeons on par with WHM's holy. Ok, maybe not that good, but it's still a very good tool to have for multiple situations. If you're not SGE, then a good rule of thumb is to keep sprint on CD during trash pulls.

Yeah, had I used SGE Icarus would've definitely helped with it. Or WHM which has lower level instaheals available. I was playing AST though. I did use everything I had whenever I was able to catch up with the tank but single regen wasn't enough to keep him up. I don't think he died once - or maybe just once? - but I just don't like the habit of being forced to emergency heal and drop everything else to rescue someone's play when it's a style instead of accident, accidents and mistakes happen and that's ok. I have met a lot of great tanks who rhythm it much better without me having to work my ass off but there are these tanks who also don't seem to have anything else but Rampart as their mitigation option.

At level 50-60+ every single healer has at least one healing spell that they can use while moving. WHM's lillies might be GCD but they are still instant cast that can be done while you're moving. Worse case scenario is if you're AST and you pop essential dignity and have lightspeed on cd, or you're a whm at the start of the dungeon without any lillies yet.

Sure, you think I didn't use Essential Dignity? Not enough tho. When you get close enough to the tank to use, it heals maybe 400 potency. Or you can wait that he drops more to get a bigger heal but then he may be out of reach already? At the end of the run he is so out of it nothing really helping and even spamming Benefic II heals less than he is losing by the second.

But you can keep your benefit of doubt. I know what I did and I think I did everything I could. I could've sprinted sooner, sure, but when you start from behind already catching is a challenge.