There is no reward for playing well.

[Claustrum]

You still keep trying.

It won't happen all the time, but I have seen CC matches clawed back from having the crystal halfway into the team's goal circle.

Okay. I have a teammate who is afk in the base after dying once from rushing past the point before it unlocks. Why should I keep trying? The afk teammate gets no punishment. I get no reward.

Edit: In fact, if the 4 of us DO manage to claw a victory out of that, it rewards the afk teammate as well. That doesn't seem fair.

[Claustrum]

There is no penalty for being a toxically bad player beyond just losing a star. There is no reward for being a sweaty tryhard. The pvp CC system encourages immediate doomerism and apathy because there is no penalty for acting in these ways, and there is no reward for fighting against it.

[Curisu]

Okay. I have a teammate who is afk in the base after dying once from rushing past the point before it unlocks. Why should I keep trying? The afk teammate gets no punishment. I get no reward.

Edit: In fact, if the 4 of us DO manage to claw a victory out of that, it rewards the afk teammate as well. That doesn't seem fair.

When you stop trying because it looks like a lost round, then you are one of the main reasons for the lose.
Never surrender and always try to win.

Report AFKs and griefer, when they do it regularly then they will get penalised.

But I would not be surprised to see you complaining about having a temp ban in a few weeks.

[Claustrum]

When you stop trying because it looks like a lost round, then you are one of the main reasons for the lose.
Never surrender and always try to win.

Report AFKs and griefer, when they do it regularly then they will get penalised.

But I would not be surprised to see you complaining about having a temp ban in a few weeks.

They don't get banned when I report them, and you should be surprised if I get banned, because I am one of the tryhards. I try so hard that I try to convince people that my hard tries deserve more reward than the afkers and true-heroes-who-can-solo-the-whole-enemy-team that I keep getting teamed with.

Edit: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...86#post6024086 My initial complaint about the fact. I still get into matches with the first person I ever saw afk in a match.

[Claustrum]

I am not saying us players need to change. I am saying there are problems with the innate incentive structure which make it more tempting to just give up than to attempt to rally together and keep trying.

[Curisu]

Tbh, I don't know if they get punished.
But I also just had to write 6 reports in total.
And 5 of them had been in the first season and looked like win trading.

And you probably try so hard that you become angry and frustrated about "bad" teammate's. As a result you become tilted which makes you play bad too, without realising it. And then you are the "bad" player in your team and the main reason you lose.

[Claustrum]

Tbh, I don't know if they get punished.
But I also just had to write 6 reports in total.
And 5 of them had been in the first season and looked like win trading.

And you probably try so hard that you become angry and frustrated about "bad" teammate's. As a result you become tilted which makes you play bad too, without realising it. And then you are the "bad" player in your team and the main reason you lose.

Thanks, I'll stop getting tilted now. But no, I'm completely aware when I'm the turd of the team. I play badly often. What's frustrating is when I'm playing at the top of my game, but some dude on my team is afk in base. Sorry you've only had to deal with that 6 times, but it's been over 20 for me this season, 3 of them were the same guy who kept going offline as soon as he got in the match, then came back online halfway in, only to log back out.

Again, my issue is there is no ingame reason to be the bigger person and keep trying in spite of bad teammates. Society works best when incentive structures benefit us for doing good things, not for being selfish and apathetic.

[Valence]

The problem the OP is trying to point out is more that the skill difference between a good player and an average player of most leagues is negligible (except crystal, the gap between low crystal and high crystal is insane but that's every game), while you know that getting some players in the team on the other hand is almost a guaranteed loss (unless the other team also has some of those). If skill was that important, those players wouldn't be rated as they are.

[Curisu]

Okay, to give you a more serious answer.

No matter how big the incentive is, it always is faster to give up and try again with a new team.
And more rewards will lead to more toxicity and bad behaviour.
Like, when a win gives triple the rewards then it is more likely that a "bad" player who maybe just has a bad round or the enemy team has good focus, gets harassed after the game.
You could also make that the round takes longer, but that leads to more frustration when you play for so long and at the end it is for nothing.

These fast rounds with low reward difference is the best way to keep all participants as happy as possible and to have as little time with a "bad" team as possible.
It casual friendly and that's what SE is aiming for.

Also, there could be differences between the ranks and region's.
Because I have not the same experience as you.

[Claustrum]

The problem the OP is trying to point out is more that the skill difference between a good player and an average player of most leagues is negligible (except crystal, the gap between low crystal and high crystal is insane but that's every game), while you know that getting some players in the team on the other hand is almost a guaranteed loss (unless the other team also has some of those). If skill was that important, those players wouldn't be rated as they are.

That is a large part of the problem, yes. What I would like to change, however, is to give reasons to keep trying in spite of those players, or penalties for being that player. If you play well enough, you don't lose a star, for example.