Why does the Conjurer guild fella not bat an eyelid at us raising the dead?

[KageTokage]

Even the Ancients believed that once a soul has returned to the Lifestream, the only way it'll ever return is as a new life in a new body.

That said, if something does end up reanimating a body somehow, it's generally either a facsimile of a soul woven together from aether and lingering memories or something worse like a voidsent or Ascian.

[sidurgu-12]

Even the Ancients believed that once a soul has returned to the Lifestream, the only way it'll ever return is as a new life in a new body.

That said, if something does end up reanimating a body somehow, it's generally either a facsimile of a soul woven together from aether and lingering memories or something worse like a voidsent or Ascian.

Theres been one instance of full on resurrection during 2.0 but it only lasted for less than a minute and i doubt anyone could repeat it.

[KageTokage]

I feel like that was less an actual resurrection and potentially more Severian unintentionally projecting his thoughts into his lover during the process so she ended up saying what he was hoping she would in order give him his peace.

It's hard to judge given how short of a time she was actually "alive" for.

[Necrotica]

The disconnect between mechanics and lore is really interesting. Over time lore is catching up to explain things like party finder and limit breaks. Resurrections seems to have been left unexplained for now but I would not be surprised if they eventually either change the tool tip or expand on lore to explain what it is healer are actually doing when they revive people.

It is a MAJOR mechanic in the game used regularly in boss fights depending on the group. Would be insane to think they won't ever address it after everything else they have bent over backwards to explain.

[kaynide]

Just to say more of the same, we are never raising the dead.

Despite the names of raise spells being what they are, they actually just (per wiki):

Bringing a target back from KO during combat. Players will be inflicted with Weakness upon their first revival, and all subsequent revives with Brink of Death until the player lives long enough for the status to wear off.

So, to be clear our heroes are brought to the "Brink of death" and are "knocked out", never killed.

[Iscah]

Despite the names of raise spells being what they are, they actually just (per wiki):

That's what it does in gameplay, not lore, and wikis are unofficial so you can't read into their wording unless it's a direct game quote.

[kaynide]

Even so, there is zero in game evidence to suggest we are bringing people back from the dead. They have been knocked out, even able to be pulled to an aetheryte and brought back to consciousness (even against their will if time runs out).

Nobody ever mourns or worries over it, completely different from when a character suffers an actual mortal wound (a la Haurch), and every time an actual attempt to bring back actual dead-dead characters happens there are horrific results (Edda, Alchemy quest line, Whitemage questline, etc)

All of this makes it extremely clear our characters are not dying, but being incapacitated in some way that can be dealt with.

To use D&D, they are at zero hit points, but still rolling saving throws before they are dead. In FFXIV you aren’t allowed to die, as you will be forced to respawn after a set time.

To date (that I can remember), we have never used a resurrection spell on any dead entity successfully to return them to life.

[Iscah]

Even so, there is zero in game evidence to suggest we are bringing people back from the dead. They have been knocked out, even able to be pulled to an aetheryte and brought back to consciousness (even against their will if time runs out).

I totally agree with you on that front, but not with referencing the wiki as what proves it.

[kaynide]

I totally agree with you on that front, but not with referencing the wiki as what proves it.

Sure, sure, but the actual game does a pretty poor job defining the situation in-game. Out of game it only ever refers to players being in either a downed state or being KO’d (a “KO count” being a Deep Dungeon thing).

While it is only defined for game mechanics, it is clear that the character is not “dead” in actual game lore.

Edit: I guess what I’m getting at is, the assumption player characters even die is incorrect, and the burden of proof to say that we are even dying/raiding the dead needs to be fulfilled by OP. And, even though sources supporting me are fringe (like wiki or FFXI’s lodestone regarding deep dungeon), there really isn’t anything to support the assumption we die when we are KO’d.

[Necrotica]

I guess we would also need to define dead. When organs stop working? When the soul returns to the aetherial sea?
How long after the body stops working does the soul hang around for? A few minutes?

You could make the argument that a 'knock out/downed' is pretty much the body no longer working. Without intervention the soul will return to the aetherial sea.

The healer then uses magic to repair the body and get it back in shape. Then it just comes down to if the body was repaired in time. The strength of the soul could also be a factor. Zenos died. He was buried. At what point did his soul leave that body to take over someone else? Elidibus was able to repair the body to the point it could house his soul. And then Zenos soul again eventually.

We saw with Ardbert he was walking around all soul and no body for a bit. Also his friends. Actually when they were on the source was that souls made physical or did the Ascians just reshape some bodies for them to use?

The more you analyze the more interesting it gets.