What even is the purpose of all those non melee/blm jobs?

[Ggwppino]

Everything being even is not actual balance

clearly i don't expect a smn to do the same damage as a blm, but i don't expect an rpr to do more damage than a blm either. What I mean is that the delta could only be dimmed by doing nerfs and buffs, not just buffs, you can't expect 10% buffs unilaterally, they should have taken and given, but sqe doesn't take away, just buff. And so the buffs are ridiculous and haven't solved the gap.

[Yeastyloins]

OK, fair enough. I thought the difference had been patched with all the job adjustments.

However, these are clears which indicates that these jobs are capable of clearing the content, right?

Sure but why make it harder for yourself or your group in general? A group can clear and do reclears in comp consisting of a DRK-GNB-AST-SCH-NIN-BLM-BRD-MCH. But that group would have a significantly easier time doing all of that if instead of MCH that person was playing MNK or SAM provided they are playing those jobs at the same level of skill. That simple job switch allows the group more leeway with their clears, they can afford damage downs, they can afford to wacky stuff happen, they can allow for a person to have a bad day and have their gameplay compromised due to having a bad day at work.

So sure they can clear, but that shouldn't be the only benchmark. Jobs shouldn't be in a place where you join a group and see a MCH or PLD and think "well shit".

[Ggwppino]

They actually have nerfed jobs before, though it's not a common thing for them to do. Also they find that they make players happier if rather than reduce the damage one job does, they bring up the damage of others. But when jobs have been so unbalanced that one is miles ahead of all the others, they have and do pull back the damage that job can do. Riddle of Wind monk in Stormblood comes to mind as one such instance of this.

True, but it is a more unique than rare case.

[Tiramu]

Sure but why make it harder for yourself or your group in general? A group can clear and do reclears in comp consisting of a DRK-GNB-AST-SCH-NIN-BLM-BRD-MCH. But that group would have a significantly easier time doing all of that if instead of MCH that person was playing MNK or SAM provided they are playing those jobs at the same level of skill. That simple job switch allows the group more leeway with their clears, they can afford damage downs, they can afford to wacky stuff happen, they can allow for a person to have a bad day and have their gameplay compromised due to having a bad day at work.

So sure they can clear, but that shouldn't be the only benchmark. Jobs shouldn't be in a place where you join a group and see a MCH or PLD and think "well shit".

Because the game needs jobs with different skill ceilings and higher ceilings should equal greater performance, if you dont do that then you either end up in a situation where all jobs are too complex for a casual/mid audience, or complex jobs become undesirable.

Imagine if every jobs was as complex as BLM or NIN, they'd make the difficulty too hard.

If all jobs were equal in performance, then why even bother playing BLM? How would pro groups who are going for world firsts feel about a BLM in their group? Might as well have a group full of Dancers and Summoners who can do the same damage with less chance of mistakes on rotations, without the liability of them getting one shotted by a mechanic that other DPS could eat.

[Mithron]

If all jobs were equal in performance, then why even bother playing BLM? How would pro groups who are going for world firsts feel about a BLM in their group? Might as well have a group full of Dancers and Summoners who can do the same damage with less chance of mistakes on rotations, without the liability of them getting one shotted by a mechanic that other DPS could eat.

If only higher complexity jobs do superior damage, then why even bother playing the "ez mode" jobs since they can't compete? That logic cuts both ways. Not being allowed to play a job that you actually like simply because it's "too easy" isn't good design. You can still play complex jobs if it's even in DPS to others, especially if you just like that job.

[Ggwppino]

If all jobs were equal in performance, then why even bother playing BLM? How would pro groups who are going for world firsts feel about a BLM in their group? Might as well have a group full of Dancers and Summoners who can do the same damage without the liability.

Why should i play blm, if it is outclassed by rpr, sam, mnk and drg?
Let's be clear, there are some classes with a slightly steeper learning curve than others, which should have 2-3% more than others just to have that gratification. But currently melee are unjustifiably infinitely stronger than ranged. Why can't I play quietly with double ranged just because ranged is decided to suck? Why does any melee do more damage than a brd for example? There is no valid reason right now.

[Tiramu]

If only higher complexity jobs do superior damage, then why even bother playing the "ez mode" jobs since they can't compete? That logic cuts both ways. Not being allowed to play a job that you actually like simply because it's "too easy" isn't good design. You can still play complex jobs if it's even in DPS to others, especially if you just like that job.

But they can clear, this is a self inflicted problem. Like I said before, you'll just flip the problem if they're all equal. Groups will want DNC over BLM because its safer.

[Tiramu]

Why should i play blm, if it is outclassed by rpr, sam, mnk and drg?
Let's be clear, there are some classes with a slightly steeper learning curve than others, which should have 2-3% more than others just to have that gratification. But currently melee are unjustifiably infinitely stronger than ranged. Why can't I play quietly with double ranged just because ranged is decided to suck? Why does any melee do more damage than a brd for example? There is no valid reason right now.

I dont know the ins and outs of their balancing justifications, but there are clearly 2 groups of jobs, with each all being fairly close to each other. The difference between BLM and RPR is quite small.

The thing with ranged and close combat melee is probably because ranged jobs, provided the player knows mechanics, are less likely to take stuff to the face compared to close melee who generally get hit by stuff more often. Or something like that.

[Azuri]

I dont know the ins and outs of their balancing justifications, but there are clearly 2 groups of jobs, with each all being fairly close to each other. The difference between BLM and RPR is quite small.

The thing with ranged and close combat melee is probably because ranged jobs, provided the player knows mechanics, are less likely to take stuff to the face compared to close melee who generally get hit by stuff more often. Or something like that.

Sigh, you can't actually be this clueless? All of this savage tier has exactly 0 mechanics that care if you are close or far in relation to the boss. This game simply doesn't work that way. On top of that, the hitbox of most bosses is the whole f*ing arena. A "melee" can literally hit the boss from any position imaginable.

Although I also have to commend you! You've made a very astute observation. There are indeed two very different groups of jobs. The "haves" and the "have nots". Let's drive the point home.



As a top 3% RDM I've ended up dealing less damage than 1st percentile SAM (who I think died like three times). In case you need an explanation what a percentile is - you can literally pick 100 random SAMs and 99 of them played better than this. Any reasoning why should I bother playing RDM? You know, I can put effort and be good at a job... or just roll my face across the keyboard for a better outcome just because I've picked one of the "real" jobs that's not second rate citizen.

[Yeastyloins]

Because the game needs jobs with different skill ceilings and higher ceilings should equal greater performance, if you dont do that then you either end up in a situation where all jobs are too complex for a casual/mid audience, or complex jobs become undesirable.

Imagine if every jobs was as complex as BLM or NIN, they'd make the difficulty too hard.

If all jobs were equal in performance, then why even bother playing BLM? How would pro groups who are going for world firsts feel about a BLM in their group? Might as well have a group full of Dancers and Summoners who can do the same damage with less chance of mistakes on rotations, without the liability of them getting one shotted by a mechanic that other DPS could eat.

OFC but at the same time should the disparity be the way it is then? Jobs that require more effort should be rewarded but is that actually what we are seeing? I'm perfectly fine with differences based on effort required, but I argue that the differences are too large atm. Why do you have RDM, a job that requires significantly more effort to reach its damage ceiling being gapped by SMN, a job that does not require that at all yet it provides the same utility as RDM? Why is BRD, a job that requires significantly more effort to optimize and is significantly punished by downtime due to the rigidity of their songs being gapped by DNC, a job that does not require as much effort to optimize their personal damage and raid contribution, provides better utility, has arguably one of the best movement abilities, benefits from downtime? Notice I'm using the term effort and not difficulty. Because while difficulty will vary between person, the amount of effort needed to optimize a job is more so objective.