New player(s) thoughts

[SannaR]

They ultimately need to get through MSQ, and it over-levels them anyway. There's 0 reason to even do open world content when it gives no exp unless you're BLU. The only time we get to do anything with new players is once every 2-3 hours when they can finally do a dungeon, then at the end of each expac with a series of dungeons and trials. This is not a good new player experience, and does not welcome them to much coop opportunities. 10% of my very close friends are even still touching FF.

Go play WoW and you'd realize that literally everything a new player can do, they can do by themselves with ease, and you as a high level player can tag along with and sync to their level and all of their side quests and MSQ. FF has done everything in it's power to make this a mostly solo experience. It ultimately promotes anti-social behavior.

Wake up, we have massive churn. This is not a good experience for PLAYERS (Not just new) and we're likely going to be in a large decline soon. As an MMO, I'd like more opportunities to play with ALL players.

And what is stopping you from helping them or reliving the story with them so that they're not alone? I was also talking about the open world monsters that story beats throw at you. And how is making sure they don't arrive to where they need to get to in the open world a bad thing or making sure that once they're out of CS and they're still in a non instanced area that they're not going to be attacked by something? You're not going to help them out if they choose to go unlock some side content that might catch their eye on the way to get catch up to where you are? Did you even try to explain to these friends what kind of game XIV is? Yes there are faults with the game and the Devs might make it look as though they're taking their sweet time making the journey better. But, if they didn't notice some of these problems then I don't think we would have gotten what trimming of ARR or the changes to MSQ tied dungeons that we have been getting. Nor any of the changes they have said they are going to be implementing with 7.0. Don't go blaming the game or the Devs if a problem is a player created problem.

[R041]

And what is stopping you from helping them or reliving the story with them so that they're not alone? I was also talking about the open world monsters that story beats throw at you. And how is making sure they don't arrive to where they need to get to in the open world a bad thing or making sure that once they're out of CS and they're still in a non instanced area that they're not going to be attacked by something? You're not going to help them out if they choose to go unlock some side content that might catch their eye on the way to get catch up to where you are? Did you even try to explain to these friends what kind of game XIV is? Yes there are faults with the game and the Devs might make it look as though they're taking their sweet time making the journey better. But, if they didn't notice some of these problems then I don't think we would have gotten what trimming of ARR or the changes to MSQ tied dungeons that we have been getting. Nor any of the changes they have said they are going to be implementing with 7.0. Don't go blaming the game or the Devs if a problem is a player created problem.

You make all of this sound like a simple task and as if I don't already do these things. Tagging along place to place for hours, waiting for them to read dialog, kill 5 mobs in a purple glowy spot once every 2 hours and queue for a dungeon every 4. Most of the combat content they do is Solo Duty. Do you know what it looks like for me to help players? It looks like I'm AFK 95% of the time because there's nothing I can do for them, I can't make them travel faster than the speed of teleport. Also why pin this on me anyway, it isn't a good experience for both of us, and for me to do this I don't get the same type of engagement that they do, and they don't get to experience the content with me. Playing this game coop is a discord call and them streaming it all, because that's as much coop as we get.

I tried WoW last month, and I was able to sync down and do EVERYTHING with the new player, and almost everything I did helped their MSQ/Quest progress, and we were able to actually explore a world together.

So don't blame ME for the lack of coop-ability. Stop making excuses. I never wanted this to turn into a single player game.

[Cach]

So, me and some friends decided to start playing this game together after reading good reviews online.

I used to joke about this with my friends, but its true: "You don't play together, you just play at the same time".
If you think that's dumb... well it's because it is.

You can group up for dungeons and roulettes and for other activities once you unlock them. But going through the Main Scenario Quests alone is not optional.
I can totally get if that just doesn't work for your group tbh.

[Avoidy]

Yeah you're not alone in a lot of that. I used to help manage a crossworld linkshell (like a chatroom in game) exclusively dedicated to bringing in new players and helping them feel welcomed. Of all the new people I met, only like... 5 or 6 of them? Actually made it to endgame. And they all tell me to this day that they would've quit if they'd had to do it alone. The vast majority got hard-filtered by the beginning quests in A Realm Reborn (ARR). And like you said, their feedback will never be heard, because trial players can't even register a forum account. Imagine joining an MMO and you can't talk, can't trade, can't even start up a party. What a great experience.

"It's to curb RMT" Ah yes, once again punishing legit players to "curb RMT." First that, now we can't even gift stuff to friends. At the end of the day, how's that curbed RMT going for you, Square? Oh right, the bots are stronger than ever. Almost like botters don't mind just buying a legit account and this doesn't phase them.

Anyway, ARR gets good but it takes a while. Post-ARR (the part after the base realm reborn story but before heavensward) is a notorious slog culminating in a pretty good final chapter that leads into heavensward, which is where the story really picks up. If you can get there, it's hella worth it. But you definitely wouldn't be the first one to give up before that point, and frankly idk what -- if anything -- can be done about it. I'm so tired of trying to get friends into this game and having them quit because of this exact same thing every time.

[Jeeqbit]

What you're typically going to find on these forums are players that have played through the expansions over a long period of time

This is true.

and don't understand that the barrier to entry is a 400 hour minimum visual novel.

This is false. We do understand that it is a 400 hour minimum visual novel. This is a problem we all acknowledge, but it's not easy to solve because the expansion stories are intertwined and you can't just split them up suddenly.

Until that problem is solved somehow, all we can tell new players is that it's a story-driven game and that if they don't like that then the game might not be for them.

They forget that actual casual play is 1-2 hours a day if you have any form of life, which means anyone trying to get to the MMO side through the MSQ with this amount of time can't play with their friends for nearly a year

This is true but again there isn't anything we can do about it, so we just tell the truth which is that it is a story game with a long story and if that isn't their thing, then either the game isn't for them or they could consider a skip at risk of not understanding the context of all the content and why other people are so excited for it.

There is the endgame content of each prior expansion which you can stop and try out, but obviously you can't do the latest endgame content that just released until you get through all of it.

A lot of people skip dialog, and the rule of thumb is to skip until there's voice acting.

The problem is that this rushing can cause you not to really connect with the characters much, because this is where they mention you by name and flesh out the personal connection some more and without that connection to the characters and the story you can just get disconnected from it and quit.

[Carin-Eri]

ARR is a double-edged sword in my opinion. Its something you don't really take for what it is until you have the benefit of hindsight much later in the game.

I mean, slow as it may be, the World-building is necessary in my opinion. I, personally, think it'd be silly if our character was the Warrior of Light from the onset, striding into the starter city with a "here I am to save the day!" attitude, having NPCs marvel at the fact that this hero of heroes graced the city with their august presence. It makes sense that our character is, basically, a nobody at the start of the game and earns recognition as the events of the story unfold. It makes the payoff, as things fall into place, more rewarding.

[SannaR]

You make all of this sound like a simple task and as if I don't already do these things. Tagging along place to place for hours, waiting for them to read dialog, kill 5 mobs in a purple glowy spot once every 2 hours and queue for a dungeon every 4. Most of the combat content they do is Solo Duty. Do you know what it looks like for me to help players? It looks like I'm AFK 95% of the time because there's nothing I can do for them, I can't make them travel faster than the speed of teleport. Also why pin this on me anyway, it isn't a good experience for both of us, and for me to do this I don't get the same type of engagement that they do, and they don't get to experience the content with me. Playing this game coop is a discord call and them streaming it all, because that's as much coop as we get.

I tried WoW last month, and I was able to sync down and do EVERYTHING with the new player, and almost everything I did helped their MSQ/Quest progress, and we were able to actually explore a world together.

So don't blame ME for the lack of coop-ability. Stop making excuses. I never wanted this to turn into a single player game.

Because it is simple. If you don't want to stand there and watch then go through it with them via NG+. Which you can turn off when they're done for the day or they want to go do any side activities they might have chosen to unlock along the way. Heck you can even skip the non voiced parts. You act like the game doesn't allow you to be more than just an observer. Or if they don't mind you doing other things while they're going through the MSQ then there are things you can do while out in the open world or doesn't take much time if it does need you to que into something. Like GATEs or chocobo racing are quick things to do but do ask you to que up for things either solo or to make sure your party is also there. Do you have all jobs to 90? Does your FC need easy to get materials for their buffs? Go play some Tripple Triad. Sight Seeing log. But to act as there is nothing to do or enjoy with someone who is going through the MSQ isn't 100% the game's fault. There are systems you can use to help your friends enjoy the journey if you so wish to do so. Now could those systems be better? Sure and I'd like to think that they're working on them or at least trying to find out how they can improve them.

[R041]

This is false. We do understand that it is a 400 hour minimum visual novel. This is a problem we all acknowledge, but it's not easy to solve because the expansion stories are intertwined and you can't just split them up suddenly.

Until that problem is solved somehow, all we can tell new players is that it's a story-driven game and that if they don't like that then the game might not be for them.

The people that do acknowledge the story being a large gatekeeper still may not have the empathy for the amount of actual effort it takes and how lonely the experience is.

Something that finally upset me was that my gf broke down and said she can never have fun with our FC, or play with us because she's been stuck in MSQ for roughly 2 years now. She's in Shadowbringers but the game has barely taught her how to even play, it's just conditioned her read a visual novel. This is not a good experience.

Yoshi messed up in trying to pull the over-arching story to the end of each MSQ and dragging it on, making this whole thing a massive mess and 2 whole expansions being almost completely filler. Other MMOs have done a decent job of branching their new areas into their own story without requiring everyone know everything about the previous.

I can't sit idly by telling people to just play a subscription MMO for 400 hours by themselves, it's completely unreasonable and it's asking people to sub for roughly 6 months just to stick with the story. And I'm sorry, but getting to know Alphinaud over 400 hours is not worth not getting to play with your actual friends.

We're going to start to lose players to WoW with the changes they've made.

You act like the game doesn't allow you to be more than just an observer. Or if they don't mind you doing other things while they're going through the MSQ then there are things you can do while out in the open world or doesn't take much time if it does need you to que into something. Like GATEs or chocobo racing are quick things to do but do ask you to que up for things either solo or to make sure your party is also there. Do you have all jobs to 90? Does your FC need easy to get materials for their buffs? Go play some Tripple Triad. Sight Seeing log. But to act as there is nothing to do or enjoy with someone who is going through the MSQ isn't 100% the game's fault.

This is the lack of empathy for the new player and coop experience. I don't really care about my own experience, I've played this game to death. I want other players to experience it and do MMO/Open World things, but that's a hard and nearly impossible task. For the new players that are only leveling 1 class, they have 0 reason to do anything else other than crafting/gathering in their spare time. Which only delays the inevitable and expands that MSQ time.

[IDontPetLalas]

Yeah you're not alone in a lot of that. I used to help manage a crossworld linkshell (like a chatroom in game) exclusively dedicated to bringing in new players and helping them feel welcomed. Of all the new people I met, only like... 5 or 6 of them? Actually made it to endgame. And they all tell me to this day that they would've quit if they'd had to do it alone. The vast majority got hard-filtered by the beginning quests in A Realm Reborn (ARR). And like you said, their feedback will never be heard, because trial players can't even register a forum account. Imagine joining an MMO and you can't talk, can't trade, can't even start up a party. What a great experience.

"It's to curb RMT" Ah yes, once again punishing legit players to "curb RMT." First that, now we can't even gift stuff to friends. At the end of the day, how's that curbed RMT going for you, Square? Oh right, the bots are stronger than ever. Almost like botters don't mind just buying a legit account and this doesn't phase them.

Anyway, ARR gets good but it takes a while. Post-ARR (the part after the base realm reborn story but before heavensward) is a notorious slog culminating in a pretty good final chapter that leads into heavensward, which is where the story really picks up. If you can get there, it's hella worth it. But you definitely wouldn't be the first one to give up before that point, and frankly idk what -- if anything -- can be done about it. I'm so tired of trying to get friends into this game and having them quit because of this exact same thing every time.

I wouldn't be so fast to say that SE doesn't get feedback from trial players. For one thing, SE already can tell how many trial players convert to paid subscriptions, it can go beyond that and tell how long it takes to convert, and I'm sure it has more metrics.

This wouldn't be the only game that doesn't allow trial or free players not to post on OF, and while it can be annoying, it's be the cause of abuse in a number of forums, so I can see the logic there.

Where I can see an enhancement for new players, and where SE has already identified a need, is likely a new entry point. I would make that an optional entry point because some people don't mind taking the time to go through the whole story, even if one day we end up at 8.0.

[Leifei]

So, me and some friends decided to start playing this game together after reading good reviews online. But quit after a day of quests, quests, quests, quests. There has got to be a way to streamline these quests to where you can get a good story, but at the same time not grinding endless quests that 99% of people skip the dialog anyway.

Also, the free trial is a joke. it's almost as if SE wants to punish people for playing the free trail and not paying. You can't even invite people to parties. I had to pay a sub just so we could group together. The entire new player experience in this aspect has to be relooked at. (heck if i didn't pay the sub i couldn't even communicate my new player thoughts to SE about this topic on the forums)

Maybe this game just isn't our style of gaming and I'm willing to accept that, just wanted to put in my 2 cents.

Imagine complaining about free content and saying that you're being punished.