A Call For Originality

[AngryNixon]

Just for clarification, I have nothing against them trying for something original, I'm just saying its only natural for games to tweak assets and features from other games in order to do so. I don't want a FFXI-2, I want a new FF Online game.

Kallera this raises an interesting topic of underlying assumptions or mistaken assumptions. I think it is often the case that when anyone references WoW or FFXI there seems to be this automatic hostility in some that manifests as "I don't want a WoW clone!" or "Oh you just want FFXI-2 that's stupid".

You're view is, I think, the real general opinion of most. I don't think many are really saying they want the old games back or for this one to be a carbon copy of other games, they're just using a frame of reference that is familiar to them to make an argument for systems and content that works. Invoking the names of WoW or FFXI to make a point does not logically or automatically lead to the conclusion that they want this game to be a copy of those games.

I read this after the fact but reference this where Blitz0309 has to insert a phrase to cover himself against that automatically hostile response:

Market wards... great idea. However since they released a beta game, people are sick of them and demand an AH (and hopefully an actually auction house and not the 11 system). Even making them searchable and basically turning them into an AH... its just to late.

Hopefully these forums are a step in the right direction of not needing to cover yourself against what should be self evident as has been the case across many 'fan forums'.

[edgar131]

I wasn't saying that they shouldn't use some stuff that is tried and true but they seem to be completely backing down from the armory system which is the one really cool thing I like about this game. I'm definitely not saying they shouldn't have some of the really good aspects from FFXI like better LS management, mail systems etc however I'm worried that instead of making some changes to the current system to make it work a lot better they are listening to fans *too* much and are just trying to completely rework it to be more like FFXI because to fans that *is* what works to them.

[Zaene]

I agree with Lomelindi. There are points in which FFXIV can excell however, in its current state, it needs some help. Where better to derive ideas from FFXI? I believe FFXI had some of the most dedicated followers in all of modern MMOs, I truly don't believe that one can go wrong from taking from that game and adapting.

[Amas]

They can try something new and exciting... but what they have now isn't that. Don't get me wrong, i love FF games, but in some aspect you should stick with the classic. You are bringing the same name, so people are going to expect some of the elements to be the same. If they wanted to go this whole classless bastardized adventurer route... they should of called it something other than a final fantasy.

Market wards... great idea. However since they released a beta game, people are sick of them and demand an AH (and hopefully an actually auction house and not the 11 system). Even making them searchable and basically turning them into an AH... its just to late.

Armory system... horrible idea. It takes away classes and gives you this melting pot of abilities. It limits additional "classes" down the road as its weapon based.. it allows you to wear any gear you want even if its not for your class or level.

Camps and porting around... sorta mixed. I like the idea of trying to get people out into different areas but they just seem crowded and annoying most of the time. And warping to crystals is a great idea to save time, but it seems to take away a bit of the game. What was wrong with having whm's port people with spells?

In my opinion they sort of took the road that the people covered in tattoos, gauged out earring, and underskin implants take to be "different"... they went too far with it and failed. Sure a few people will love the idea... but society as a whole is laughing.

Completely backwards.

Market Wards... terrible idea. AH works, just use a better one than FFXI.
Armory system... great idea. At least the "change jobs as needed" aspect. Gives a great excuse for not swapping gear in combat like in FFXI, so no crazy gear set management, but provides much more flexibility to be on what job is needed.
Camps and porting around... porting is fantastic for getting around, removes reliance on any particular job for travel, and cuts out a lot of mindless running around.

And I don't think "society as a whole" cares about MMOs. The biggest criticism of most new games is that they're just clones or tweaks on WoW. FFXIV is definitively not that. And with about an extra year of development (Tanaka never should have rushed to beat Cataclysm to market) it would've been sufficiently compelling on launch.

Then again, Yoshi-P is a much better choice for an MMO director than Tanaka, so maybe it's for the best.

The biggest problems are in the abysmal game engine that is Crystal Tools (looks gorgeous, but implemented poorly and far too demanding on GPU hardware), the lack of content, and the spammy battle system. Two of the three can be fixed easily. Crystal Tools, we're stuck with.

[AngryNixon]

The biggest problems are in the abysmal game engine that is Crystal Tools (looks gorgeous, but implemented poorly and far too demanding on GPU hardware), the lack of content, and the spammy battle system. Two of the three can be fixed easily. Crystal Tools, we're stuck with.

The Crystal Tools problem is a massive failure all on its own. The game demands more than the majority of average computers can throw at it... It's completely absurd. There are plenty of other games on the market that look as good and don't choke a computer half as bad. Oh well Amas you are very likely right that we're totally stuck with that problem.

[Malakhim]

What i believe is that it is necessary to get back the immersive atmosphere and uniqueness of FFXI.

And that's what they're going to be doing with FFXIV. While the argument is shaky at best, that doesn't make it any less true that Final Fantasy XI had a full 9 years of growth at this point. FFXIV has had 6 months. While it can be argued that in this day and age, it's hardly a good idea to release a game that's as barebones as FFXI was when it released(speaking about before it was released stateside a full year and an expansion after the Japanese release, which didn't even have chocobos or arrow stacking above 12), I'm willing to bet that once FFXIV is actually "finished", and there are plenty of rough edges in the game to indicate that this is the case, it'll probably surpass what a lot of people think of it now.

Naturally there are things in FFXI and other MMOs that work, but this is Final Fantasy we're talking about here. There are always going to be cosmetic and system changes with each iteration.

[pepesylvia]

I'm really hoping they remove the physical level system. It's not a matter of originality and being unique from other games. It's a matter of me wanting to play a mage job without having to screw up my stats I have in place for 50 Pugilist.

[edgar131]

I'm really hoping they remove the physical level system. It's not a matter of originality and being unique from other games. It's a matter of me wanting to play a mage job without having to screw up my stats I have in place for 50 Pugilist.

The point is they should fix the current system so it works better when switching classes, not just scrap the whole thing because of one easily solvable problem.

[Malakhim]

The point is they should fix the current system so it works better when switching classes, not just scrap the whole thing because of one easily solvable problem.

This has been the crux of my argument for awhile.

There are some systems in the game that we could probably do without. I think the Market Wards system have run their course and don't really see anything they could do to make it work as effectively as people want, and I was a big proponent of the system if it were made viable.

There are also a lot of systems in place, such as the stat issue you brought up, that really just needs to be balanced and fixed before we can simply just discard it.

[Kirith]

And that's what they're going to be doing with FFXIV. While the argument is shaky at best, that doesn't make it any less true that Final Fantasy XI had a full 9 years of growth at this point. FFXIV has had 6 months. While it can be argued that in this day and age, it's hardly a good idea to release a game that's as barebones as FFXI was when it released(speaking about before it was released stateside a full year and an expansion after the Japanese release, which didn't even have chocobos or arrow stacking above 12), I'm willing to bet that once FFXIV is actually "finished", and there are plenty of rough edges in the game to indicate that this is the case, it'll probably surpass what a lot of people think of it now.

Naturally there are things in FFXI and other MMOs that work, but this is Final Fantasy we're talking about here. There are always going to be cosmetic and system changes with each iteration.

I want to believe that, yet the whole artistic direction is different. FFXIV tries to follow a more western style, unlike the peculiar classic FF atmosphere of FFXI. Perhaps, as you say, it just lacks in development time, but i'm pretty sure that was it not for overwhelming fan demand for a "more FFXI-like" style, they would have went with an even stronger "European Middle Ages" atmosphere.

I'm not sure *this* iteration is doing it in the right way. Final Fantasy should stay true to itself.