YPYT is griefing. Tank role is not "puller" role

[Bad_Luck]

I've run into this before, as an occasional Bad Tank (TM). I pull what I'm comfortable with, usually one group, sometimes two. Most people are ok with it, especially since I normally group with friends.
But I do remember one particular instance in Smileton, where three of us queued in duty finder for a fourth, and ended up with a very impatient reaper who repeatedly pulled All The Things. Now, I did my best, but we did end up wiping twice in the span of about 90 seconds, he bailed, and dutyfinder replaced him almost immediately with another dps with whom we went on to finish without further incident.
I've had other people pull before, and I'm fine with it as long as it's not more than I can handle. But it's something that should be discussed beforehand, and the tank and/or healer have made their comfort levels heard.

Bingo, if you're a DPS who takes the role of puller upon yourself without team support, you're wrong and you're the problem. At least the remedy is pretty easy

[Bad_Luck]

If 3/4s of the party want to go faster, would not be stressed out by going faster, and are not bottlenecked by the tank (regardless of their refusing to use CDs or do anything but spam Unleash) for anything other than courtesy (undeserved, in this case), then the tank demanding the rest tiptoe around their domineering ego is the one griefing.

And if 3/4s of the party is pissed at the one DPS who decided to pull and cause a wipe, they can easily and very quickly be replaced. I don't know why you people always assume it's always the tank here putting on airs of being a team dictator. If the DPS pulls without consulting the party, clearly they're thinking they run the whole team on their own. If they cause a wipe they clearly didn't have healer or tank support. So you can get mad at the tank if you want, but I find it's usually the DPS who can't hold their water (or aggro).

[Iscah]

IIRC the Hall of the Novice training indicates that DPS should deal with adds that spawn while the tank is busy handling the boss, and certainly says nothing about what anyone should do with packs of enemies waiting for you further along in the dungeon – although you can probably extrapolate the answer from the tutorial where there are three packs of enemies together and you have to peel them off one-by-one using Shield Lob.

Also see the level 10 guildhest with Tiroro telling you you'd be mad to take them all on at once. And the one with the sylph that is supposed to be about reinforcing the "DPS split off to deal with adds" thing but in practice just involves the tank taking everything while the DPS focus on the boss.

In short, they tell you a lot about how the devs pictured the game would work in its earliest days, but not much about what we actually do.

[JamieRose]

Do people even understand why the tank needs to be the puller? The tank has all the tools that keep the mobs corralled so that they can be easily burned down and that people don't have to constantly shuffle to avoid AoEs.

I had a healer decide that he was going to pull in KotL. He pulled the large robots (name escapes me) and by the time I noticed half the party was dead. While I generally don't believe that letting people die is the best way to solve this situation, I've been tempted to do it in the past.

Is it really that hard for people to just do their own job?

[UkcsAlias]

The only time when i would trigger more mobs is when the tank is going group by group (and i dont do that on the lower level dungeons). In nearly all cases the tank can at least pull 2 groups, and in plenty of cases (especialy later dungeons) go even w2w. Having a slow tank there is just painfull to watch. And if that causes a wipe, so be it. There are 2 possible outcomes: the tank can handle it fine, or he cant. And in most cases tanks can do it fine.

I actualy think that the way these late dungeons are designed, is actualy bad for this behaviour. All the 90 dungeons is just constant w2w pulling. Behaviour that in some lower level dungeons will result in a wipe. And if some higher dungeons also featured this aspect. The art of pulling can finaly be a skill again.

As tank i strugle most in the lower level dungeons because of that, i have no idea how much i can pull (usualy i go for 2 or 3 mobs depending on what is generaly halfway), while on later dungeons i just go w2w because the enemies themselve are rarely dangerous enough (i like the ice particles in the stone vigil for that reason).

[Besame]

That is why I avoid dungeons. tanks that just move to gather 3x sets of trash w/o notifying nor asking if the group is ok with it. Well, tank alone suckers. I don't expect to pull anything as a dps unless asked but I do enjoy some communication within a croup.

[ijuakos_xqwzts]

As a main healer, if you pulled it, you better plan on tanking it or at the very least, hope like the hell the tank gets them off you before you die. I only get a handful of "save your pathetic arse" heals and I'm not wasting them on every pull. The best you'll get is a Eukrasian Diagnosis. If it was an "oops, I got too close", I might save you ('might', meaning that the tank under active attacks *always* gets the first heal). If you Leeroy Jenkins right into every room, that's on you. It's about "resource management", not "griefing".

[Kuroka]

Easy if "you pull you tank" is not ok as everyone is to pull then as dps i can literally bathe in all aoe and hazard zones as HP arent my concern...

Sure you might drag further away mobs to us with your ranged move but if you start running ahead, enjoy...

[Liam_Harper]

YPYT is absolutely griefing.

Pulling for the tank is also griefing unless you know exactly what you're doing. If you charge ahead without seeing if the tank and healer are there (they might pause for a minute for a number of reasons), pull mobs to Narnia, pull while the healer is low on mana, pull for a tank that's already going fast because you want to show off you can go even faster, go headless chicken mode with a mob that attached itself to you, whine because you took a few hits and so on, you're 100% the problem and deserve a vote kick. You're the reason tanks are rare in DF.

People seem to take "it's ok to pull as a non-tank" as an excuse to bully the tank. You are meant to work with the tank, not against them, or you hinder the run. If a tank is going exceptionally slow and refuses to try to adapt, you votekick because majority rules or grit your teeth and deal with it if the majority rules against you, you don't charge in and create chaos.

[Doozer]

I don't know why people don't just talk to each other. Asking "hey is it okay if I pull extra groups that are further ahead for you?" or "is it okay if I pull to the wall?" goes a lot further than people realize. Though people also have to realize that duty finder is what it is, and you have to accept that you get what you get. If you absolutely have to have a dungeon play out a certain way, use party finder or get friends. The game doesn't enforce either way of playing, so it's up to people to discuss it. Y'all just don't want to do that, you want to force your own playstyle.