(MAJOR SPOILERS) Just beat Endwalker MSQ...

[Atelier-Bagur]

The genocide remarks people like to throw are seriously some of the most childish twitter-like comments I've seen come out of this community. Grow up people.

[Aniya_Estlihn]

The genocide remarks people like to throw are seriously some of the most childish twitter-like comments I've seen come out of this community. Grow up people.

Gotta agree, its virtue signaling of the highest degree and shows how few people have the actual ability to separate reality from fiction.

From what I've seen thru my lurking, this being brought up is almost exclusively used to de-rail and change the topic when someone likes the story or Venat, almost like a communal rebuke of a dissenting opinion. It's incredibly disingenuous.

[Nav_Fae]

Gotta agree, its virtue signaling of the highest degree and shows how few people have the actual ability to separate reality from fiction.

From what I've seen thru my lurking, this being brought up is almost exclusively used to de-rail and change the topic when someone likes the story or Venat, almost like a communal rebuke of a dissenting opinion. It's incredibly disingenuous.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and I respect opinions, but I'd be lying if it didn't erk me just how many people are pro Zenos and how hot daddy material he is. Then Venat comes in and that's too far and crosses a line.

[Midareyukki]

The genocide remarks people like to throw are seriously some of the most childish twitter-like comments I've seen come out of this community. Grow up people.

Gotta agree, its virtue signaling of the highest degree and shows how few people have the actual ability to separate reality from fiction.

Am I the only one that doesn't see Venat as inherently genocidal? She did what she thought/was informed would have been the best way to stop Zodiark's self-sacrificial loop. They're both genocidal by the same standards. But unlike Zodiark whose souls actually got lost and/or still remain in the moon as mindless echoes, Hydaelyn's actions preserved the lives that existed, even if it meant splintering them. Sure, they lost their people as a result, but that was going to happen either way, and it's not like anyone was handling the apocalypse well at all.

>.> also that isn't about me mentioning "conqueror wants to genocide a whole people" thing I said before, is it? Because I just used that as an example. The beast tribes, Werylt and Bozja have that, for example.

[jameseoakes]

Am I the only one that doesn't see Venat as inherently genocidal? She did what she thought/was informed would have been the best way to stop Zodiark's self-sacrificial loop. They're both genocidal by the same standards. But unlike Zodiark whose souls actually got lost and/or still remain in the moon as mindless echoes, Hydaelyn's actions preserved the lives that existed, even if it meant splintering them. Sure, they lost their people as a result, but that was going to happen either way, and it's not like anyone was handling the apocalypse well at all.

>.> also that isn't about me mentioning "conqueror wants to genocide a whole people" thing I said before, is it? Because I just used that as an example. The beast tribes, Werylt and Bozja have that, for example.

The annihilation of culture is still genocide and Venat murdered the people alive at the time and at best remade them into something new inhabiting weaker failures bodies and inhabiting a crueller more brutal world and Venat had a fetish for sufffering and everyone had to suffer to justify her evil ideology

Also the sacrifice falls apart in EW, it made sense in ShB that the races we see in the game may have been created during the second sacrifice when the world was set to right. But now all the player races are ancients souls reworking there bodies to deal with the effects of being sundered so there's no people to sacrifice

[Midareyukki]

The annihilation of culture is still genocide and Venat murdered the people alive at the time and at best remade them into something new inhabiting weaker failures bodies and inhabiting a crueller more brutal world and Venat had a fetish for sufffering and everyone had to suffer to justify her evil ideology

Also the sacrifice falls apart in EW, it made sense in ShB that the races we see in the game may have been created during the second sacrifice when the world was set to right. But now all the player races are ancients souls reworking there bodies to deal with the effects of being sundered so there's no people to sacrifice

That's the thing. I'd argue that she was no different than Meteion and Zodiark. Eventually both of them would lead to the destruction of their people and culture. Even if Zodiark promised to preserve it, you'd basically be killing off people who didn't partake in the mega suicide project at the risk of tempering. She just saw the writing on the wall and went for the path that saved the most life. And I mean "life" in the sense that it apparently is a quantifiable substance what with the Lifestream and souls being a thing, rather than "life in general". Meteion wanted "life in general" to be gone, so she's the most off-kilter of the three. It's cultural genocide, yes, but the others are full-on genocide.

...which now that I write that I realize "yeah, that doesn't make it better" so nevermind |D

Not that it excuses Venat, mind you. She basically took it upon herself to make sure present and future life would go on in a mangled state. Preserved, yes, but she still imposed her own vision on the world and cleaned the slate a little too hard.

As for the player races being ancients' souls, they said before that only some of us are, including some of the Beast Tribes (Sahagin priest with the Echo). The rest is just new life that sprouted from the Lifestream in an already sundered state.

[ReynTime]

That's the thing. I'd argue that she was no different than Meteion and Zodiark. Eventually both of them would lead to the destruction of their people and culture. Even if Zodiark promised to preserve it, you'd basically be killing off people who didn't partake in the mega suicide project at the risk of tempering. She just saw the writing on the wall and went for the path that saved the most life. And I mean "life" in the sense that it apparently is a quantifiable substance what with the Lifestream and souls being a thing, rather than "life in general". Meteion wanted "life in general" to be gone, so she's the most off-kilter of the three. It's cultural genocide, yes, but the others are full-on genocide.

...which now that I write that I realize "yeah, that doesn't make it better" so nevermind |D

Not that it excuses Venat, mind you. She basically took it upon herself to make sure present and future life would go on in a mangled state. Preserved, yes, but she still imposed her own vision on the world and cleaned the slate a little too hard.

As for the player races being ancients' souls, they said before that only some of us are, including some of the Beast Tribes (Sahagin priest with the Echo). The rest is just new life that sprouted from the Lifestream in an already sundered state.

What you don't seem to get, and neither do the white knights who think this is about Emet VS Venat, is that we don't think the treatment of Venat in the MSQ sucks because we're "team Emet-Selch". It's because she's just as 'bad' but doesn't get called out for it. The MSQ forces us to be sympathetic and treat her like 'mommy'. Both Venat and Emet are self righteous genocidal, only differed by the justification they gave to their actions. The treatment of Emet in ShB is better because we're allowed to choose how to respond, and even though the Scions eventually understand where he comes from, they ultimately disagree because, well, they don't want to die or have the people they care about die. It's the supposed "grey area" that Yoshida loved to talk about during the Endwalker preparation hype. Grey area which turned out to be absent in Endwalker's MSQ.