What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Kaoru_Nagisa]

Did the final stretch of Legion questing needed for the Achievement to unlock access to Lightforged and Void, today, and couldn't help feeling some parallels between Venat and Xe'ra. Both attempting to impose and enforce what they think someone should do and the 'destiny' they should forge, regardless of how anyone else - especially the Chosen One - felt about it.

Was cathartic to see Illidan blow that overgrown chandelier up in denial of her trying to exert her own will and path upon him. Wish we'd had a similar option to at least say something against Venat, even if the game still forced us to continue on the path regardless.

On that note, WoW does a heck of a better job showing massive battlefields and fighting during apocalyptic-level invasions than FFXIV ever has. You'd think with how much Yoshi tried to copy it, he'd have at least took some lessons in how to create proper set pieces.

[MisterMagician]

snip

When I left wow as my mmo of choice 5 years ago for this game (not that I ever played wow, really), never would I have thought THESE nuclear hot takes would follow me here. Yet here we are.

I won't go into detail, because I already said what I needed to on the wow forums a half decade ago, but I will give the cliff notes. The mag'har orc scenario was also another scene of "these people are not only monsters, they are delusional, why are we working with them?" that the community missed a point of by a mile.

illidan is a mass murdering psychopath, a narcissist par excellance, and a madman to boot. The scene you are speaking of here was meant to show two things:
1) illidan is and always will be a villain.
2) illidan is just sargeras 2.0, and when sargeras is gone illidan will just be the next one utterly indistinguishable from the first.

There were hints of this throughout legion's story, but it was never beat over the head of the player so most people missed it. This was even a major plot point of tbc, and the sole reason altruis the sufferer is a character is to point this out. All his interactions in tbc and legion shows this as well.

illidan's problem with sargearas is not anything to do with what sergeras does or is, as illidan does all that himself and then some; illidan's problem is that he is not the one personally doing it. illidan is stalin to sargeras' lenin. it's a raw, nihilistic will to power disguised as a sickening "anti-heroism" because people fall for that kind of thing.

The irony of the scene is as such:
A) illidan was born lightforged by xe'ra, in fact xe'ra is his real mother.
B) illidan was good at everything because he was lightforged.
C) illidan was terribly lost because despite being competent at everything, he had a gaping wound missing from him just not fitting in anywhere; even his own family was foreign to him.
D) sergeras knew what illidan was, who xe'ra was, and was deathly afraid of him for it.

All that provided a careful concoction ripe for making illidan as mentally ill as possible, and with sergeras being a master maniupulator he found illidan easy to dominate by just trying to fill the "missing parent" part of illidan. Of course illidan knew something was wrong, and quickly shirked off sergeras' influence but it just made illidan's hunger for family worse.

this ultimately lead into illidan working for sergeras without knowing it. every self-hurt, every evil act, every "sacrifice" (each being the "scars" illidan held so close) proved to be a wonderful excuse for allowing illdan to commit any evil he wanted.

commit genocide? scars. enslave multiple races? scars. try to enslave two whole planets? scars. Mommy issues hidden behind foster-daddy issues? SCARS!

(the site very churlishly informed me I have to break this post into multiple parts because it's too long)

[MisterMagician]

DOUBLE SNIP

(continued from above)

In comes xe'ra, illidan's real mom, seeing her son all messed up and she tries to fix him. What xe'ra would not allow herself to see though was that illidan's scars were self-inflicted, and illidan would rather commit suicide by become sargeras 2.0 than see himself. illidan didn't cut out his eyes so he wouldn't see the horrors of the same void that made sargeras go mad, illidan cut out his eyes so he would never see his victims and most of all never see himself.

without his "scars," without his excuses, illidan would see just how far he fell. Realizing they are a fallen paragon would kill any narcissist worth their title, so illidan would do anything to keep afloat the sick delusion that he is a monster "risen" by himself through his own bootstraps. all sergeras wanted to do was to corrupt illidan so much that he wouldn't even recognize his own mother, and in that he succeeded.

what sergeras did not succeed in was saving his own life. while illidan tried to shatter his own mother, her power still remained within him, and using it illidan struck down sergeras.

the only problem was illidan's own narcissism lead to him becoming sergeras, so nothing was lost, and without xe'ra little is gained; so illidan's fate as a future raid tier boss is sealed in stone, sergeras just changed names he was never defeated.

BUT you ARE right to point out the similarities between the warrior of light and illidan, but there is a difference that makes all the difference though:
illidan never knew his mother and so therefore could not recognize her, the warrior of light does know his mother and cannot forget her.

you were not allowed to insert your own (very strange) illidan-like desires into dealing with venat, because azem DOES know and Love his mother even if you would rather not.

This is my first and probably last post on this forum, this site loads like molasses and I write too much for 3000 character limits; Goodbye.

[aveyond-dreams]

you were not allowed to insert your own (very strange) illidan-like desires into dealing with venat, because azem DOES know and Love his mother even if you would rather not.

This is my first and probably last post on this forum, this site loads like molasses and I write too much for 3000 character limits; Goodbye.

I would love it if Yoshi would stop taking away my character's agency and forcing them into ridiculous dynamics like the one the story prescribed for my character and Venat. Are we supposed to self-insert into our Wols/Azems or not? Can't wait for a short story next year to confirm we were rushing to that woman's side just before she wiped out her own race. Widen the chasm between the player character and myself even more.

[Bitmoar]

I don't think that's going to happen. Azem disagreed with both summonings, and that's canon. And did you do the omega side quest? You had the opportunity to say you disagreed with what Venat did, and I think that's by design.

[Kaoru_Nagisa]

Angry baby rage

Gonna be honest, I ain't reading that word vomit. You sounded deranged in your first paragraph. Sorry that bringing up the big bad evil WoW triggered you so hard, I guess?

Still writes better morally grey characters than FFXIV. Still makes better set pieces than FFXIV - especially considering Endwalker's apocalypse being meaningless. Still does huge battles better than FFXIV.

Sorry not sorry if that triggers you.

#IllidanWasRight

I would love it if Yoshi would stop taking away my character's agency and forcing them into ridiculous dynamics like the one the story prescribed for my character and Venat. Are we supposed to self-insert into our Wols/Azems or not? Can't wait for a short story next year to confirm we were rushing to that woman's side just before she wiped out her own race. Widen the chasm between the player character and myself even more.

Also this. My Azem and WoL would never forgive Venat for the atrocities she committed and the people she took away not just from the Unsundered, but from them as well. Yoshida can shove his mommy-loving fetish on me all he likes, that isn't my WoL in Endwalker.

[Striker44]

Still writes better morally grey characters than FFXIV. Still makes better set pieces than FFXIV - especially considering Endwalker's apocalypse being meaningless.
#IllidanWasRight

Hahahahaha! Oh, that's rich! Excuse *wheeze* me while I *gasp* try to *chuckle* stop laughing.

I would love it if Yoshi would stop taking away my character's agency and forcing them into ridiculous dynamics like the one the story prescribed for my character and Venat.

This is common in practically every JRPG I can think of. Your character isn't "you" - you are playing the role of that character. I find it amusing when people play a JRPG and then complain that it has common elements of a...JRPG...

[jameseoakes]

Hahahahaha! Oh, that's rich! Excuse *wheeze* me while I *gasp* try to *chuckle* stop laughing.


This is common in practically every JRPG I can think of. Your character isn't "you" - you are playing the role of that character. I find it amusing when people play a JRPG and then complain that it has common elements of a...JRPG...

Yes but most JRPGs make exploring the character of the main character a main part of the game, not make them a blank slate your meant to be free to use within a somewhat defined range and not thrown out at the very end of the the main story arc

[BaconBits]

Typical Striker44 moment.

[Theodric]

Typical Striker44 moment.

I know I've said as much in the past, though that image never fails to make me laugh. So I'm going to quote it so it remains one of my final posts around these parts.

I won't rule out a potential return altogether though I've let my subscription lapse so my posting rights will run out any day now.

Needless to say there isn't really anything in the recent patch that appealed to me. I've always loathed Hildibrand and appreciated that it was locked away in its own little bubble rather than tied to major content. The latest batch of beast tribe quests continues the bizarre trajectory of making strawmen out of alien races/pushing some utterly bizarre 'themes'. Then there's the criterion dungeon desperately trying to sanitise Ul'dah's dark past.

With the Ascians/Ancients and Garleans cast off of the playing board there isn't much other than the Void that really interests me in the game these days and that, in itself, seems to be set to be the next target to be wrapped up in an all too neat little bow.

I'll be pleasantly surprised if that isn't the case - though even if it isn't, my complaints towards this game extend beyond the story.