Variant & Criterion Dungeons

[dspguy]

Personally, I'd rather see Criterion also have the scaling factor that Variant dungeons have. Even if it meant that certain party combinations were better than others - the fact that they still pigeonhole us into Tank/Healer/DPS/DPS when the Variant version does not - just seems like they can't think outside of the box.

[Deveryn]

Personally, I'd rather see Criterion also have the scaling factor that Variant dungeons have. Even if it meant that certain party combinations were better than others - the fact that they still pigeonhole us into Tank/Healer/DPS/DPS when the Variant version does not - just seems like they can't think outside of the box.

I disagree. After progging a fresh run, there's value in the variety of jobs.

This whole set of dungeons is them thinking outside the box. There's finally 4 man content that's legit challenging and no one is excluded.

[Ransu]

Personally, I'd rather see Criterion also have the scaling factor that Variant dungeons have. Even if it meant that certain party combinations were better than others - the fact that they still pigeonhole us into Tank/Healer/DPS/DPS when the Variant version does not - just seems like they can't think outside of the box.

The trinity is literally the core of MMO's like this. If you don't like that find a different game. The worst thing swtor ever did was remove roles from their flashpoints making them boring as hell. They gave you some room in variants which is why they called it that. Leave the harder content to what makes these kind of games tick.

[AmpelioB]

The trinity is literally the core of MMO's like this. If you don't like that find a different game. The worst thing swtor ever did was remove roles from their flashpoints making them boring as hell. They gave you some room in variants which is why they called it that. Leave the harder content to what makes these kind of games tick.

the "don't like it don't play" is literally the worst mentally anyone can have, we literally have content in this game that doesn't push the trinity and scaling point down (palace of the dead/HoH/Treasure hunt) so there is literally no point in being this rude.

[Midareyukki]

The trinity is literally the core of MMO's like this. If you don't like that find a different game. The worst thing swtor ever did was remove roles from their flashpoints making them boring as hell. They gave you some room in variants which is why they called it that. Leave the harder content to what makes these kind of games tick.

the "don't like it don't play" is literally the worst mentally anyone can have, we literally have content in this game that doesn't push the trinity and scaling point down (palace of the dead/HoH/Treasure hunt) so there is literally no point in being this rude.

I think the problem is conflating "core concept" with "strict concept". MMORPGs in general have a core concept usually stemming out of the trinity (dedicated healer, dedicated damage dealer, MAYBE someone to tank the damage). Meaning that it's their base system. Whether that MMO decides to branch off of it or not is entirely up to them. FF11 has dedicated tanks, for example, but those can change depending on their build. WoW is a similar system. GW2 has more than just "Oh you tank, deal damage or heal" and such, as in a party your utility is incredibly useful as well.

FF14's outlook on it is "strict concept". We have no utility because it's always perceived as "broken". Square hasn't exactly made a game where we can explore different avenues, so trying to translate that into this game just won't cut it. Hence why BLU's current design has to be a Limited Job. We really only work with a ludicrously strict system where people deal damage, heal and tank, that's it. These systems where we have buttons with different effects emulate the utility and such that other games provide, breaking the Trinity a little. Or at least giving it more space to breathe. It's limited, but it's something given the sort of MMO that was built.
The Trinity's just a design choice. Devs then expand or constrict it.

Ampelio's right. Content that circumvents the trinity a bit (DDs with their scaling and pomanders, Eureka and Bozja with Lost Actions, Treasure Hunt with its scaling) is rather popular.

Going for a "don't like it don't play it" argument over the concept of the MMO isn't exactly that great when the whole point of this concept is literally made to cater to that xD Plus, people can enjoy the trinity and still want something that breaks monotony, can't they? Does everything need to lie on extremes with this community? If someone says "we could do with more of X" it doesn't mean they inherently hate stuff that isn't X.