People who can't do AOE rotations in 70+ Content

[caffe_macchiato]

I agree with you when I first started long ago I didn't know what rotations were and hated to read so why would I read a tool tip lol. One dungeon changed all that because the tank stopped the fight look at me and said, "I'm sorry you need to learn your rotation your dps is to weak." (Kicked) I was devastated, angry, embarrassed, and demoralized. What did I do? I googled archer rotation, went to a dummy practiced, read the tool tips, and after a week of practicing went back to that same dungeon and at the end received all three commendations. A kick in the pants is what I needed I'm good now.

This seems like Stockholm syndrome, but it’s also quintessentially FFXIV in the current year. Yoshida pretends that we’re not allowed to do this, but as we can all see in this thread, many people deeply love and appreciate online toxicity. His vision doesn’t matter, yours does. And that’s fine! You can chase everyone else out. Let’s make this into WoW or EQ or the rest.

A problem, though: I (and others) subscribed to Final Fantasy XIV because of Yoshida’s vision. We bought into a lie, because that vision is dead if no one cares about it. FFXIV is not a “friendly community”, it’s not “less toxic than WoW”, and the people do not “welcome new players with open arms”. And only difference between FFXIV and lesser MMOs is that we have a sock puppet (Yoshida) that pretends that things are okay when they really aren’t. It’s good for revenue, but it’s also a complete lie. More scrupulous consumers should avoid giving money to hucksters and liars, but you all clearly enjoy it, so the circus of lies and deceit will continue much to your amusement.

[TaleraRistain]

THANKFULLY, like you said, gameplay like this is NOT the norm and is pretty sparse.

Then why you are complaining about it? First thing I noticed was that our characters are on the same DC and like Reiner, this is something I run into VERY rarely. And I run roulettes every day like Reiner does, both as healer and dps. For one, I'm not noticing the exact skills someone is using because I'm busy handling my own skills and doing mechanics. So I often wonder exactly how the person complaining is performing that they can watch someone else so closely they know every skill they're using. And I'm not noticing runs taking really any longer than they normally do. I notice the opposite really, when I get that incredibly optimized group where everything melts. So if it's rare, then why this PSA? Make a post in something like Tales from the Duty Finder for the random person who ticked you off in X group that day and move on.

Something I also accept by letting the game randomly match me with people of all experience and ability levels is that sometimes I may need to be the rockstar of the party. Especially on healer. Just like teams in real life, sometimes we have to shore up the weaknesses in others as they shore up the weaknesses in us. Sometimes we have to step up. And the developers intend for this to happen. They want the strong to help the weak. Yeah, one person might end up doing more but again, it's rare that this is needed. So why not take the W when it happens and be the MVP? If it's absolutely at an unacceptable level then that's the time to bail. We've all had a group that just wasn't going to work. But if someone is going into this sort of team situation with an unbending idea of playstyle or the inability to adjust to be what their party needs, then they're going to have a bad time in Duty Finder. And it has nothing to do with the system being inundated with "bads". It's just the nature of variability in the system and the malleability that successful groups sometimes need to succeed.

Edit: It was Dodo who did the thread so ignore the PSA mention. But the point stands. Why is it worth getting so upset about something that occurs every few months if that? I don't see people defending the behavior in this thread as you've accused some of doing so much as not thinking it's nearly as big of a deal or worth their energy to get worked up about.

[Zebraoracle]

snip

A problem not being common is still a problem when it occurs. It's a problem that shouldn't exist at all but because there's always going to be crappy people in the world, it does. Why is it so hard to understand that people want to improve things? Letting griefers get away with griefing is NOT going to help anyone. Being the hard carry of a group isn't fun when you realize it's happening because someone just isn't trying. You know where being the hard carry IS usually fun? Content where everyone is trying and you outperform the rest of the group. Once again I ask, why are we defending crappy people who don't respect our time? The zealous defense of these people is MIND BOGGLING, you'd think it'd be the opposite considering they are causing issues for other people! And you go and mention "teams in real life", yeah, teams where everyone is expected to at least try. What we're talking about in this thread is not people who are trying but don't perform well, we're talking about people who are seeking a free carry off of the efforts of others.

So then go do something else. I thought the whole point of this thread was "waa, casuals are ruining my dungeons"? The way I see it, you can get annoyed and try to kick them, go do something else, or just ignore them. 2 and 3 seem healthy, 1 seems unproductive in the long run.

Would you stop insulting casuals? Casuals are not the target of this thread, casuals are not griefers/leechers. I don't know how many times it needs to be explained that this thread is targeting people who expect free carries in multiplayer content without having to put the work in themselves, or people who become belligerent and act like there was some great personal attack on them when someone politely asks them to use their abilities appropriately. If you and people like you would stop defending those that actively do not care about your time and effort, the already uncommon cases of this would all but cease to exist.

Kicking someone for single targeting mobs is liable to be treated as abuse of the kick function by SE. It's happened to people before.

You know what's also against the ToS? Lethargic gameplay where someone doesn't actively participate, and when politely asked to doesn't either leave or acquiesce. Kicking someone for griefing is not going to get you in trouble with Square.

[Nestama]

Kicking someone for single targeting mobs is liable to be treated as abuse of the kick function by SE. It's happened to people before.

I dunno about that. SE does have "lethargic behaviour" in their prohibited activities list.

Aiding the enemy / Uncooperative behavior / Lethargic behavior
Refers to an act of performing actions that give an advantage to an enemy (monsters, or the opposing team/players in PvP content) by not performing the necessary gameplay required of the situation. This may be combined with combat sabotage as well.

[TaleraRistain]

A problem not being common is still a problem when it occurs. It's a problem that shouldn't exist at all but because there's always going to be crappy people in the world, it does. Why is it so hard to understand that people want to improve things? Letting griefers get away with griefing is NOT going to help anyone. Being the hard carry of a group isn't fun when you realize it's happening because someone just isn't trying. You know where being the hard carry IS usually fun? Content where everyone is trying and you outperform the rest of the group. Once again I ask, why are we defending crappy people who don't respect our time? The zealous defense of these people is MIND BOGGLING, you'd think it'd be the opposite considering they are causing issues for other people! And you go and mention "teams in real life", yeah, teams where everyone is expected to at least try. What we're talking about in this thread is not people who are trying but don't perform well, we're talking about people who are seeking a free carry off of the efforts of others.

So you have an absolute 100% way to tell when someone is intentionally griefing versus when they're just tired, off their game, momentarily distracted, just not good at certain things, or a number of other things that may be encountered in others in DF? Because you must have amazing psychic powers if so. Or you're parsing. In a dungeon.

[Zebraoracle]

So you have an absolute 100% way to tell when someone is intentionally griefing versus when they're just tired, off their game, momentarily distracted, just not good at certain things, or a number of other things that may be encountered in others in DF? Because you must have amazing psychic powers if so. Or you're parsing. In a dungeon.

If someone is so tired they can't hit their AoE rotation (456) instead of single target rotation (123+whatever else it has), they need to go to bed. The AoE rotations in this game are not even remotely demanding. If someone's distracted for a moment, sure whatever things happen. If they're distracted for the entire duty? They need to go deal with whatever it is instead of putting that on three to seven other players. If they're just not good at the game? Cool, people can improve with helpful tips and, again, is not the focus of this thread. Your self-righteous defense of griefers is wildly misplaced.

[Nestama]

So you have an absolute 100% way to tell when someone is intentionally griefing versus when they're just tired, off their game, momentarily distracted, just not good at certain things, or a number of other things that may be encountered in others in DF? Because you must have amazing psychic powers if so. Or you're parsing. In a dungeon.

I've been tired, off my game and distracted (sometimes all at once), but I don't suddenly do less than the bare minimum because of it. It's extremely easy to tell if someone is not using AoE's in a dungeon if you have player effects on, they're a Caster, or you're a tank/healer and notice things are taking way too long to die and you're running out/out of resources (when I tank, first w2w I do I use Vengeance and Arm's Length. Next pull I use Rampart and Reprisal. Yes, I use other things like Bloodwhetting, Thrill and Equilibrium. Holmgang too. If I have to use everything on the first pull, then there's a problem).

[Wolwosh]

I've been tired, off my game and distracted (sometimes all at once), but I don't suddenly do less than the bare minimum because of it. It's extremely easy to tell if someone is not using AoE's in a dungeon if you have player effects on, they're a Caster, or you're a tank/healer and notice things are taking way too long to die and you're running out/out of resources (when I tank, first w2w I do I use Vengeance and Arm's Length. Next pull I use Rampart and Reprisal. Yes, I use other things like Bloodwhetting, Thrill and Equilibrium. Holmgang too. If I have to use everything on the first pull, then there's a problem).

Also just to add on your point; how is that fair to the healer as an example?
If the Tank uses no CD's the Healer has to work 5 times as hard.. What if he is tired?
Nobody excuses a healer that had a long day, only uses cure and wipes the party on every boss, well I guess some ppl on this forum would...

[Zebraoracle]

Also just to add on your point; how is that fair to the healer as an example?
If the Tank uses no CD's the Healer has to work 5 times as hard.. What if he is tired?
Nobody excuses a healer that had a long day, only uses cure and wipes the party on every boss, well I guess some ppl on this forum would...

It's not just this forum, it's in game too. People will strangely defend griefers, going above and beyond to enable them, when you'd think they'd be up in arms because how dare someone have the nerve to make three or seven other people, or sometimes even 23 other people, deal with their sorry butts.

[Atelier-Bagur]

This seems like Stockholm syndrome, but it’s also quintessentially FFXIV in the current year. Yoshida pretends that we’re not allowed to do this, but as we can all see in this thread, many people deeply love and appreciate online toxicity. His vision doesn’t matter, yours does. And that’s fine! You can chase everyone else out. Let’s make this into WoW or EQ or the rest.

A problem, though: I (and others) subscribed to Final Fantasy XIV because of Yoshida’s vision. We bought into a lie, because that vision is dead if no one cares about it. FFXIV is not a “friendly community”, it’s not “less toxic than WoW”, and the people do not “welcome new players with open arms”. And only difference between FFXIV and lesser MMOs is that we have a sock puppet (Yoshida) that pretends that things are okay when they really aren’t. It’s good for revenue, but it’s also a complete lie. More scrupulous consumers should avoid giving money to hucksters and liars, but you all clearly enjoy it, so the circus of lies and deceit will continue much to your amusement.

Grandma, did you forget to take your meds this week?