People who can't do AOE rotations in 70+ Content

[Gemina]

"Harmful", yes :P Like, I'd be like you, I wouldn't care... IF it didn't mean that I had to work harder as a healer\tank to keep up with the pull. If other people aren't doing that effort, why should I? It's not like I'm asking you to exert yourself because I'M exerting myself. I'm saying that these things are baseline, and that not doing them IS rude. Because the only reason I'm exerting myself is to make up for the fact that you are not. That for me is the harm.

Principle my friend. Principle. If you let the lack of effort of one player influence your own, you're not any better. Worse even. So easily swayed into a defeatist mindset instead of sticking to your guns, and just getting the dungeon run done, and moving on with your playtime.

It's more than just "oh lol, wacky DPS went ahead and pulled". The tank can grab aggro with one AoE, literally who cares. But dragging the dungeon down because you're focusing on one guy all the time is just going to make the pull last longer. And if it's in a dungeon that hurts a lot, then... yeah, no, you're not just being rude, you are being harmful.

If you want to argue on the side of it not being proper etiquette, I am not going to argue with you. I actually agree with that. When you start saying it's harmful, I am going to say you are overdramatizing the situation. Especially with my above statement in mind.

[Midareyukki]

Principle my friend. Principle. If you let the lack of effort of one player influence your own, you're not any better. Worse even. So easily swayed into a defeatist mindset instead of sticking to your guns, and just getting the dungeon run done, and moving on with your playtime.
If you want to argue on the side of it not being proper etiquette, I am not going to argue with you. I actually agree with that. When you start saying it's harmful, I am going to say you are overdramatizing the situation. Especially with my above statement in mind.

That is the single most high-horse load of bull I've read all day, and these are the OFs!
Where on earth did you read "defeatist"? Are you honestly saying that you're meant to endure stupidity and people frustrating you and that we should embrace this sort of playstyle in the community and not be outraged when it happens? Overdramatizing? Okay so you're just going to ignore the examples not only that I gave but other people agreed? I read your above statement, and it just reeks of haughtiness. You're accusing me of defeatism? You're accusing me of overdramatizing a situation? But what proof do you have other than nonsensically vague insults, miss? What else do you call disdain for such moments?

Go on then. Let's see you clear Bardam's Mettle as a Scholar with a DRK without them using Living Dead and have the DPS not AoE the pulls at all. Tell me that's dramatizing a situation that actually can happen.

Tell me to my face that people doing the absolute bare minimum and lying to your face about it is dramatizing when just this weekend I had a tank outright tell me she was using more than Rampart. When I, as her Sage healer on Dead Ends, barely could keep up with the damage she took. And I didn't quit, I stayed the whole dungeon. But it wasn't worth it, nor does it say anything about any virtue I might have. Because that's the sort of people you're defending. And calling others that don't want to deal with this "overdramatizing". If you're okay with that sort of behaviour, that's on you, but keep your haughty insults to yourself.

Or perhaps I need to spell it out how exhausting it is needing to deal with that? Especially if you're a new player who isn't used to these things and likely don't have the gear to keep up? You're really going to defend that and tell me that I'm being dramatic? It's taxing. That's what's harmful about it. Nothing needs to be this exhausting, much less in a videogame, now does it? Physical harm isn't the only kind of harm out there.

Imagine reading tooltips

FireMage has a point. If people managed to go through character creation and read the quests they're given to progress the story, they aren't illiterate. Minimum you can do is read what your skills do.

[Boblawblah]

That is the single most high-horse load of bull I've read all day, and these are the OFs!
Where on earth did you read "defeatist"? Are you honestly saying that you're meant to endure stupidity and people frustrating you and that we should embrace this sort of playstyle in the community and not be outraged when it happens? Overdramatizing? Okay so you're just going to ignore the examples not only that I gave but other people agreed? I read your above statement, and it just reeks of haughtiness. You're accusing me of defeatism? You're accusing me of overdramatizing a situation? But what proof do you have other than nonsensically vague insults, miss? What else do you call disdain for such moments?

Go on then. Let's see you clear Bardam's Mettle as a Scholar with a DRK without them using Living Dead and have the DPS not AoE the pulls at all. Tell me that's dramatizing a situation that actually can happen.

Tell me to my face that people doing the absolute bare minimum and lying to your face about it is dramatizing when just this weekend I had a tank outright tell me she was using more than Rampart. When I, as her Sage healer on Dead Ends, barely could keep up with the damage she took. And I didn't quit, I stayed the whole dungeon. But it wasn't worth it, nor does it say anything about any virtue I might have. Because that's the sort of people you're defending. And calling others that don't want to deal with this "overdramatizing". If you're okay with that sort of behaviour, that's on you, but keep your insults to yourself.



FireMage has a point. If people managed to go through character creation and read the quests they're given to progress the story, they aren't illiterate. Minimum you can do is read what your skills do.

that was quite the ..dramatic response.

Also, Imagine that the Imagine guy has a point.

[Midareyukki]

that was quite the ..dramatic response.

Also, Imagine that the Imagine guy has a point.

Yep, I'm a dramatic person :P But it doesn't mean that I'm overdramatizing a situation when shit like this is being defended. Stuff like that actually happens and it IS exhausting to go through. And neglecting that over semanthics is ridiculous. I do believe, at least, that I'm allowed to have a dramatic response when I get insulted for saying that there is a harmful consequence to such playstyles, even if it's psychological. You are not immune to frustration, at the very least. And if you have the mental fortitude for it, great, but that's not what's expected of everyone. First should come a baseline skill level, not people understanding babies drooling over the keyboard.

Also, the imagine guy... Soge? o,o

No wait, FireMage, since I said he's got a point? Hey, if he got a point, he got a point ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This isn't kindergarten. You CAN read unless your primary language isn't English, German, French nor Japanese.

Guy may be wacko, but even monkeys can fall from trees, and even he can land one in the bag.

[Bladedance87]

Nice discussion so far. Left corner is " play like i want!" Right side is" I play however I want!" Its as old as MMOs and will be forever a reason to fight on the forum and some nice entertainment for me to read. So please go on!
Oh and if this post was too "low quality" for some i will throw in my personal opinion: if you meet those "underperforming" ppl too often then its time for a break because you probably played for hours in DF and this lets the odds rise in meeting those people more often than average, which is pretty low in my experience.

[Fyrebrand]

According to Square, the correct response after politely asking someone to stop slacking is to kick them. It's that simple. Always take a friend with you if possible to ensure it goes through.

Bruh. And here I am just queueing for DF roulettes on my own like a chump, without even worrying about it or forming a militia of Kick Warriors in advance.