Will Magnai ever find his Nhaama?

[Midareyukki]

If your first question on meeting any new woman is "Look into my eyes, are we soulmates?" then you reap what you sow.

True, that goes for anyone, be they man or woman, to anyone, be they man or woman. That's not what he's saying, though, at all. He's pointing out that you won't find many portrayals of pathetic women the way men are to the level Magnai is like. And here's the thing: pathetic women like that do exist. Just as much as pathetic men like Magnai exist.

[Raoabolic]

True, that goes for anyone, be they man or woman, to anyone, be they man or woman. That's not what he's saying, though, at all. He's pointing out that you won't find many portrayals of pathetic women the way men are to the level Magnai is like. And here's the thing: pathetic women like that do exist. Just as much as pathetic men like Magnai exist.

I assume we won't get fun architypes like this for the same reason KI had to walk on needles and hire a "consultant" when they wanted to add a guy who happens to be an indi- ah, native american and have a huge presentation about why it was okay for the native american to have an accent and use words native to his tribe, lol.
In unrelated news, RIP in peace Prey. Your remake sealed your casket. ;_;7

[SentioftheHoukai]

True, that goes for anyone, be they man or woman, to anyone, be they man or woman. That's not what he's saying, though, at all. He's pointing out that you won't find many portrayals of pathetic women the way men are to the level Magnai is like. And here's the thing: pathetic women like that do exist. Just as much as pathetic men like Magnai exist.

I mean, personally I prefer to NOT extend the cycle of labeling people, irrespective of gender as pathetic. It frankly causes more problems than it solves and will merely propagate and exacerbate the issue, especially in this particular GCBTW.

With Japan still very much holding on to Patriarchal values, I think it's okay to show men as silly once in a while. They can handle it. Most Japanese video games portray female characters only in terms of their relationships to the male characters (just look at Final Fantasy VII Remake lol).

Also, Magnai isn't viewed as "pathetic" by really anyone, it's just fun poking because he's so obviously the alpha male type that just wants a soulmate.

I honestly love that FFXIV is willing to show non traditional gender roles/personalities.

Honestly, the problem isn't that he's seen as "silly" so much as consistently worthy of ridicule and scorn for one untimely mistake. This is wrong, and reminds me of the horror stories you hear of continuous hazing that ends in a life being taken in tragedious circumstances. The "Little Sun" crack might have been forgivable if not for the fact that Endwalker seems to have taken this and ran all the way to Ultima Thule with it.

Like seriously, what is Magnai even in the Ilsabard Contingent for? Oh right, his purpose is comedic relief at his expense. Something similar goes for Sadu, for a mission designated to establish peaceful relations amongst traumatized refugees of a race that's been near genocided, the warmongering Mongol-adjacent tribe leader obsessed with bloodletting seems like... a bad fit. This is especially egregious since the plot just mentioned the Ilsabard Contingent having to be vetted for those merely looking to use it as pretense to commit violence. So, how did Sadu, with her known proclivities get through?

.....Well. This game sure does love it's narrative inconsistencies, to be sure.

Yeah, Sadu constantly being aggressive and undermining people also annoys me. Y'shtola being snarky I get because she has no patience for crap, and during the Little Sun moment she was in a bit of a hurry to figure stuff out before Garleans could come in.

Sadu's just doesn't spark joy with such mannerisms. So okay let me get this straight, it's okay for her to constantly put Magnai down, lash out at people and go overboard with her boisterous traits when we all collectively agree Magnai's creepy advances don't make him look good? And not just that, when Gosetsu first meets her, he and the WoL are shocked to hear the Dotharl's beliefs, with Gosetsu even making a rather rude remark. She obviously gets offended and tells him to mind his tongue. Fine, fair play. Don't be an ass just because someone's belief system is opposed to yours. But as the quests go on, Gosetsu shows he's actually open to the idea and can even consider it and gain worldly knowledge out of it, even if he doesn't believe in it. He sees the poetic nature behind the belief and he sees that there's merit and value to gain from such an outlook. Sadu on the other hand scoffs at him just as dismissively that "a corpse is a corpse, it can't hear your prayers". And she makes no attempt to see the value in Gosetsu's viewpoint. Sure, it's never focused on her, but her remarks were just as dismissive as his were. What, just because they're walking in your land, suddenly it's okay for you to judge them as long as they don't judge you?

Also, her constant advances over Cirina are off-putting imo. Like, girl, that's not consent, Cirina's just a nice person and wouldn't tell you "no" flat-out. Stop. You want to get into her panties, you treat her with respect, don't start talking about her like she's a given. Magnai may be a creep with his Nhaama comments, but at least he asks the woman if she's interested.

I think perhaps the saddest part of this is the explanation for why she's this way personality-wise. Sadu is a former man reincarnated into a more feminine form, and it shows through in her frankly really rather toxic mannerisms. A sort of soul-trans, in a sense. Which is why it's so simultaneously frustrating but also pathetic intellectually that Magnai, who's leagues less offensive is treated the way he is for the misfortune of being borne into the form he was. Another glaring example of 2022 Western double standards in the way it is and isn't deemed acceptable to treat certain personages, I suppose.

[Midareyukki]

I mean, personally I prefer to NOT extend the cycle of labeling people, irrespective of gender as pathetic. It frankly causes more problems than it solves and will merely propagate and exacerbate the issue, especially in this particular GCBTW.

Fair enough. I'd reword it to "people in general are capable of making others uncomfortable, regardless of sex, gender, what have you". Because you're right, the word "pathetic" carries a certain connotation, when that's not really the case. I meant it more like how behaviours, comments and advances can be harmful, and everyone is capable of practicing them. Not just men. It's just that there's a social outlook. One that changes depending on who does it. And that outlook often ignores the fact that the other parties are also capable of doing the same thing and be just as bad as the group their targetted are perceived.

Honestly, the problem isn't that he's seen as "silly" so much as consistently worthy of ridicule and scorn for one untimely mistake. This is wrong, and reminds me of the horror stories you hear of continuous hazing that ends in a life being taken in tragedious circumstances. The "Little Sun" crack might have been forgivable if not for the fact that Endwalker seems to have taken this and ran all the way to Ultima Thule with it.

His obssession with personifying Azim into himself and searching for "Nhaama" in an off-putting way is part of his personality. But other traits are presented to you during your stay with him in the Dawn Throne, as well as the immediate scenes after the Naadam. He's
1 - Adamant about you abiding by the law of the steppe. (This is a general thing to all Xaela you encounter, but Magnai is the one who is constantly making sure you follow their rules)
2 - Proud of his status and angry about how Sadu disrespects his authority despite the fact that he won the prior Naadam fair and square. Sadu's the one who refuses to acknowledge the authority he and his tribe won under their own mutual rules.
3 - Because of the above two, he also comes across as someone who very much does what he says. Just after you've beaten the Naadam, he acknowledges your gained position with fair play and asks "Your wish was for us to fight with you, yes? Then on my word, we will". He didn't insult anyone, but guess who scoffs at his grand speech: Sadu, who simply just carries on as if following the new Khagan's word was a given. It was a given. But Magnai knows these guys aren't from around, and he wants to make them understand that, unlike Sadu, he actually follows through with his promises and isn't one to question hard-earned authority.
Not to mention him forcing us to do his bidding and sticking around with us wasn't some blind thing. He paid attention to us and what we were doing, that's why he trusts us. All that time, he was gauging who we were.

Come Endwalker and he's "ha ha funny harassment warrior".

I think perhaps the saddest part of this is the explanation for why she's this way personality-wise. Sadu is a former man reincarnated into a more feminine form, and it shows through in her frankly really rather toxic mannerisms. A sort of soul-trans, in a sense. Which is why it's so simultaneously frustrating but also pathetic intellectually that Magnai, who's leagues less offensive is treated the way he is for the misfortune of being borne into the form he was. Another glaring example of 2022 Western double standards in the way it is and isn't deemed acceptable to treat certain personages, I suppose.

So, in a way, they're re-framing toxic masculinity by saying that "Well Sadu is a woman, she just happened to be a man before and she's acting as one". I don't know how much this can relate to trans people, and I've seen enough conversations on that to know that this is the can of worms that shouldn't be opened in these forums... But she is being justified too quickly for being presented as a woman. If we framed it back to her past life, we likely wouldn't find any of her mannerisms endearing. Imagine a male Sadu acting the exact same way toward Cirina and loudly proclaim he'd take every woman in the Steppe. Again: Magnai at least asks you. And the moment you turn him down, he laments it but doesn't make any further advances. Yes, it's still creepy for him to do it, it's still a negative aspect about his personality and it's fine to point that out. But a lot comes at Magnai's expense when Sadu is clearly doing worse and getting away with it.

[Nyxs]

So, in a way, they're re-framing toxic masculinity by saying that "Well Sadu is a woman, she just happened to be a man before and she's acting as one". I don't know how much this can relate to trans people, and I've seen enough conversations on that to know that this is the can of worms that shouldn't be opened in these forums... But she is being justified too quickly for being presented as a woman. If we framed it back to her past life, we likely wouldn't find any of her mannerisms endearing. Imagine a male Sadu acting the exact same way toward Cirina and loudly proclaim he'd take every woman in the Steppe. Again: Magnai at least asks you. And the moment you turn him down, he laments it but doesn't make any further advances. Yes, it's still creepy for him to do it, it's still a negative aspect about his personality and it's fine to point that out. But a lot comes at Magnai's expense when Sadu is clearly doing worse and getting away with it.

Sadu is a woman born a woman so it doesnt relate at all to them at all. Her former life she was a man but she isn’t man.So they are grasping at straws while also preaching about former self not being your current. It’s disappointing.

[Midareyukki]

Sadu is a woman born a woman so it doesnt relate at all to them at all. Her former life she was a man but she isn’t man.So they are grasping at straws while also preaching about former self not being your current. It’s disappointing.

Oh I mentioned trans people there because that's what SentioftheHoukai mentioned, "Trans-Soul". I don't know enough about trans people to comment on it, and I personally also don't think it relates to them at all. Hence why I said "I don't know how much this can relate to trans people", and the rest of the post didn't mention trans people at all.

[SentioftheHoukai]

Sadu is a woman born a woman so it doesnt relate at all to them at all. Her former life she was a man but she isn’t man.So they are grasping at straws while also preaching about former self not being your current. It’s disappointing.

Oh I mentioned trans people there because that's what SentioftheHoukai mentioned, "Trans-Soul". I don't know enough about trans people to comment on it, and I personally also don't think it relates to them at all. Hence why I said "I don't know how much this can relate to trans people", and the rest of the post didn't mention trans people at all.

Honestly, the trans bit is just how I saw it. Feels relevant to me, since her being a former man and reincarnating into a different physical body, but possessing ultimately similar personality characteristics is actively brought up as plot point in-game during the same segment Dotharl beliefs are discussed. Not irrelevant or unmentioned and thus invalidated as a view, after all.

Or can you tell me that if you died and were reborn as the opposite gender in physicality alone, but retained your former memories and identity that no disconnect would be felt? I might myself, but then my gender has never factored into my identity so the chances are admittedly iffy.

[Midareyukki]

Honestly, the trans bit is just how I saw it. Feels relevant to me, since her being a former man and reincarnating into a different physical body, but possessing ultimately similar personality characteristics is actively brought up as plot point in-game during the same segment Dotharl beliefs are discussed. Not irrelevant or unmentioned and thus invalidated as a view, after all.

Or can you tell me that if you died and were reborn as the opposite gender in physicality alone, but retained your former memories and identity that no disconnect would be felt? I might myself, but then my gender has never factored into my identity so the chances are admittedly iffy.

They don't really retain their previous memories though, do they? I thought the dynamic was that people around them told them of who they were and they'd grow up based on that expectation. Many of them don't possess the same talents as before and have to work them up. Meaning Sadu likely grew up listening to stories about who she was as a man, and it was either expected of her to behave like her previous incarnation, or this stems from her interpretation of those stories. I can see how trans people might relate, but I can't speak for their experiences, which is why I acknowledge the thought but try not to go too deep into it.

For me the curious aspect is more so how Sadu presents herself and how her behaviour is presented with a justification. Especially when she's caustic, insolent and abrasive, yet no one bats an eye. Because it seems to be expected of her based on her past self, mixed in with a bit of her own innate "Sadu-body" personality. It could be Sadu herself is an already insolent woman, exacerbated by the traits that were seen as acceptable in her male selves. Regardless, I do think there's a double-standard, and Magnai is taking the brunt of it. Not that it excuses his behaviour, mind you. But whether or not Sadu is justified in hers often goes entirely unmentioned.