Helare shortage in PF: what would bring you back?

[Bsrking5]

A great start would be more engaging damage. Having to replace one key because it's been worn down 100x faster and having a second key worn down 2x faster than every other key isn't fun. Among things like giving shield sect back to ast, making sage a not copy of scholar just without pet drama, some major differences in aoes, not double dipping pure into shields and vice versa, remove free cure trap/benefic, a actual difference in fairies for scholar I don't care if one is more meta build savage against if you must, fix/change rescue, remove repose or change it's effect, more movement options, make mp matter, allow sage and scholar shields to stack.

[GrimGale]

I suppose this is why we have more of a "You play the Job you like best" mentality instead. It DOES help that you can have all Jobs on a single character, so you aren't locked to classes like in WoW. One could argue that our Jobs are our specs, in that sense.

Unfortunately this variety dissapears when it comes to filler gameplay. There isn't much difference to nuke spam when it comes to each healer. So being able to switch jobs isn't much of a filler gameplay shift anyway.

Having talents or customizable options would give the player the ability to tailor each job to their gameplay needs and wants and it would also give the develloper the ability to keep adding new abilities to the game without having to necessarily expand a job's base kit.

[Zolvolt]

50-70% of a healers button presses are damage and we only have 2 rotaitonal damage abilities. It would just be nice if more of our button presses were heals or if our damage button presses had more of arotation

[Renathras]

Unfortunately this variety dissapears when it comes to filler gameplay. There isn't much difference to nuke spam when it comes to each healer. So being able to switch jobs isn't much of a filler gameplay shift anyway.

Having talents or customizable options would give the player the ability to tailor each job to their gameplay needs and wants and it would also give the develloper the ability to keep adding new abilities to the game without having to necessarily expand a job's base kit.

This is true.

Which is why even I'm an advocate of changing SCH, AST, and SGE filler rotations.

I don't think anyone is really against that right now. The main contention is between people wanting ALL the healers changed/made more complex (the majority position here and on FFXIV Discussion Reddit) vs the people wanting one or even two (always WHM, sometimes SGE is mentioned as the barrier healer equivalent) kept "simple". (Which is amusing to me since SGE is the healer the most players in surveys say they don't understand)

That's really the only sticking point right now - that some people want to make ALL the healers more complex while others want to make SOME of the healers more complex so that they're all distinct in their filler while leaving one or two as they are today, which would also be distinct/diversity at that point. If SCH had Bio, Miasma, Miasma 2, Fester, Bane, and Shadow Flare, and if AST had a 1-2-3 rotation, then WHM and SGE remaining exactly as they are today would already be distinct, and SCH/AST would be distinct as well. This would allow players choice in how much (or how little) they want to engage with DPS rotations on their healers, and which kind.

[T-Owl]

This is true.

Which is why even I'm an advocate of changing SCH, AST, and SGE filler rotations.

I don't think anyone is really against that right now. The main contention is between people wanting ALL the healers changed/made more complex (the majority position here and on FFXIV Discussion Reddit) vs the people wanting one or even two (always WHM, sometimes SGE is mentioned as the barrier healer equivalent) kept "simple". (Which is amusing to me since SGE is the healer the most players in surveys say they don't understand)

That's really the only sticking point right now - that some people want to make ALL the healers more complex while others want to make SOME of the healers more complex so that they're all distinct in their filler while leaving one or two as they are today, which would also be distinct/diversity at that point. If SCH had Bio, Miasma, Miasma 2, Fester, Bane, and Shadow Flare, and if AST had a 1-2-3 rotation, then WHM and SGE remaining exactly as they are today would already be distinct, and SCH/AST would be distinct as well. This would allow players choice in how much (or how little) they want to engage with DPS rotations on their healers, and which kind.

And people keep disagreeing with you because on of the complaints people have about White Mage right now is that its restrained by its identity of being the baby healer which doesn't allow for much complexities in its toolkit and if your idea would come true, it would be even worse off if other healer classes get expanded in terms of their dps toolkit while other classes remain stagnant, you would see WHM be permanently locked out of the PF. And again, you have not brought a single argument in favor of why WHM should be restricted to the no skill healer outside of the fact that you would dropp out of the game if it forces you to press more than one button in your rotation, which is not an argument. The only argument I saw you using was misrepresenting holy priests in WoW by presenting us footage from a bad holy Priest. Especially since you already expressed that you barely even play current tier Savage, so this change wouldn't even affect you, as nobody can penalize you for still playing a 1 button rotation in casual gameplay modes and outdated content.

And due to WHM being more GCD heavy than other healers, it would be even easier to perform a simple dps rotation on it, because you don't have to deal with weaving as much while casting heals inbetween dps. I would argue being reliant on ogcd heals is more of a difficulty than performing a simplified dps rotation because it in either cases forces you to target, heal and switch target back inside a 1 second window, while gcd healing gives you a window of 2,5 seconds to select a target, heal it and then refreshes to another 2,5 second window of switching back to the enemy and attack it.

[Mortex]

There wasn't Healer shortages during Asphodelos and Healer shortages this tier only for P8S. Do the math.
People asked for more stuff to heal and they listened, now no one want to heal lmao.

But P8s is pretty easy to heal except natures alignment if the tanks don’t help. Like the entire tier is not as bad as people say it is healing wise. Like it’s pretty resident sleeper. High concept is getting boring the moment you get the color mix. It’s just that healers in general are so boring too play. Like normally as a healer main forever ( even though I’m a tank now since my static broke at hc 2 week 1 ) I don’t even wanna gear healer anymore as 1-2 role because it’s boring as hell playing this role. You are a clown that is not taken seriously.

[AmiableApkallu]

Which is why even I'm an advocate of changing SCH, AST, and SGE filler rotations.

And people keep disagreeing with you because on of the complaints people have about White Mage right now is that its restrained by its identity of being the baby healer which doesn't allow for much complexities in its toolkit

The way I think of it: There is absolutely no reason why WHM, as one of the more iconic jobs of Final Fantasy, should be the "baby" healer. In terms of job design, it should on the same level as, say, BLM: Easy enough to play to get through the MSQ and normal mode content, but with enough "complexity" to give you something to strive for should you wish to challenge yourself or engage with more challenging content.

[Renathras]

And people keep disagreeing with you because....

No.

People here keep disagreeing because they want all the healing Jobs made more complex so they wouldn't be disproven about people wanting complex DPS kits when the majority pick WHM anyway showing the community actually prefers simpler DPS kits. And there are also people that want more complex kits but want to be able to play any healing Job (aesthetics or just liking them all) and want them all to be to their liking, regardless of what this does to the rest of the players who dislike that.

you would see WHM be permanently locked out of the PF.

No, we wouldn't. As long as the damage and healing output (the essential duties of a healer) are comparable between all healers, this would never happen. The only time Jobs are locked out of PF are when they're doing significantly less damage than their role counterparts. If WHM is doing the same damage with Glarespam that SCH is juggling 5 DoTs, then neither will be blacklisted.

And again, you have not brought a single argument in favor of why WHM

I've brought up quite a few, you just keep ignoring them. I'll bring them up again when you stop ignoring them. I'm not going to write you another book explaining it for you to just reply two posts down that I haven't given "a single argument".

The only argument I saw you using was misrepresenting holy priests in WoW by presenting us footage from a bad holy Priest.

Why do you openly lie? Like seriously, why do you so verifiably lie?

As I said there - in directly reply to you making this accusation once already - I wasn't drawing any comparison at the time about that. I've talked on other occasions about it, and noted that Resto Druid subspec Balance (which is the raid spec, Feral subspec is for 5 mans) and Holy Priest speced for raids and not 5 mans do play a lot more like WHM today and have somewhat similar priority systems. But that wasn't the argument being made in the post you're talking about. I even said so directly to you at the time. You can't read one of my posts, make an accusation, then ignore the explanation and maintain any credibility.

Especially since you already expressed that you barely even play current tier Savage,

Except I do play current tier Savage, and I also extensively play Extremes. So this change would, yes, affect me.

This is yet another untruth you keep saying and I've already disproven (both for me specifically and for the community more generally) and even noted the reason behind it when you exposed it once as you didn't want people being able to clear content you think of as yours.

[QUOTTE]And due to WHM being more GCD heavy than other healers,[/QUOTE]

WHM using GCDs to heal is the reason it needs LESS damage focused GCDs not more, since it already is nukespamming the least of all the healers. Where AST has only Malific, WHM has Solace, Rapture, and Misery to break up their Glarespam.

But as someone said in the echo chamber thread: It doesn't even matter what we think. It matters what Yoshi P and the Devs want to do. And right now, staying the course and having all healers simple - because you folks won't be happy if SOME are but others are made more complex - is the solution they've chosen. And while I think it's not the best one, I like it better than yours, so I'll support it over yours if you're so dead set on rejecting the actual compromise position.

The way I think of it: There is absolutely no reason why WHM, as one of the more iconic jobs of Final Fantasy, should be the "baby" healer. In terms of job design, it should on the same level as, say, BLM: Easy enough to play to get through the MSQ and normal mode content, but with enough "complexity" to give you something to strive for should you wish to challenge yourself or engage with more challenging content.

It's not a "baby" healer.

Things being straightforward, understandable, and functional isn't "baby". It's efficient, economical, and smart design.

.

Here's a survey that's interesting: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...iest_how_does/

The caveat here is that this is of the Chinese playerbase (the max age is 35; culturally, there's an aversion to gaming as an adult, so in a global or Western survey, we'd expect this to be more generalized), but it's interesting seeing which Jobs are the more and least favorite, and how this changes based on gender and age. In general, males prefer tanks and melees and females prefer DNC, RDM, and healers, and younger players prefer more active and complex/hyper Jobs while older players are more content with more simple, effective, and functional Jobs. It would be interesting to see a similar survey from a more worldwide and/or Western audience, but I suspect the general trends would hold.

What we do know from the Lucky Bancho numbers is that, worldwide, players prefer the simpler Jobs and the more complex are the least played: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...b_populations/

[T-Owl]

The way I think of it: There is absolutely no reason why WHM, as one of the more iconic jobs of Final Fantasy, should be the "baby" healer. In terms of job design, it should on the same level as, say, BLM: Easy enough to play to get through the MSQ, but with enough "complexity" to give you something to strive for should you wish to challenge yourself or engage with more challenging content.

Its basically what I'm saying, I would like it to be the slow and hard hitting gcd intensive healer, which probably would make it easier to get into, because healing on the gcd is easier than healing on weave in heals in a 1 second window.

[Thoosa]

Sadly they won’t ever go back and redesign fights so there’s more incoming damage to handle, nor can they introduce (probably) more random damage to heal because of how the game is written.

The best we can hope for is more dps buttons which they probably won’t do due to “balancing issues” and “we don’t want to put pressure on healers to decide between healing or doing a dps rotation”. Wow manages it, not sure why 14 couldn’t?