Dark Knight Megathread

[RyuDragnier]

Before it's added that "SE doesn't balance around dungeons", they may start when Criterion hits since they're supposed to be difficult content for 4-man groups. Nobody wants to see a tank nerfed over Criterion, so I'm sincerely hoping they do a few things to make every tank viable. Such as the bosses actively challenging the tanks full kit so every tank feels like they're giving it all, mobs where Bloodwhetting doesn't trivialize them, and hopefully looser DPS checks (see P5S and P6S) where the difference in tank DPS doesn't result in some tanks being taken less over others.

[Undeadfire]

Before it's added that "SE doesn't balance around dungeons", they may start when Criterion hits since they're supposed to be difficult content for 4-man groups. Nobody wants to see a tank nerfed over Criterion, so I'm sincerely hoping they do a few things to make every tank viable. Such as the bosses actively challenging the tanks full kit so every tank feels like they're giving it all, mobs where Bloodwhetting doesn't trivialize them, and hopefully looser DPS checks (see P5S and P6S) where the difference in tank DPS doesn't result in some tanks being taken less over others.

Depending on it's popularity. SE are always testing different styles content to see if it's worth continuing.

[Lyth]

According to the roadmap, there are two more sets of Criterion dungeons already planned for around 6.4/6.5, as well as an additional Deep Dungeon in 6.3.

Balance for these dungeons is going to intrinsically be very different from raid content. We already know that job-specific raise abilities are not allowed in Criterion dungeons and have been replaced by Variant Raise (which in turn is not allowed either in Savage Criterion). If there's a specific defensive or utility effect that ends up being a problem then it's likely to be addressed in a similar way. Dungeon dps balance is also intrinsically different as there's a focus on AoE. Some effects like Living Shadow and Gnashing Fang are primarily single target without a real AoE analogue. Jobs that excel will be versatile at both (although once again, your DPS choices will be the make or break here).

Either way, let's see what happens.

[ItsUrBoi]

The problems at least for me in the current state of the job are these:

-> When mitigating you have too many buttons to press for little gain ( ex: Dark Mind , Oblation ). While Dark Mind is good against magic damage and it has a low cooldown of 60 seconds, Oblation adds only a 10% while sharing the same cooldown. It makes absolutely no sense for both of these abilities to remain on a job that is already double weaving during its burst for roughly 8 GCDs straight. If I were to fix this I'd make Oblation grant 20% damage reduction and a regeneration effect for 150 potency for 12 seconds, with its duration also increased by 2 seconds due to the way healing ticks work. The heal over time is kind of necessary because the job has no healing in its kit and sometimes you'd wish you could heal yourself a little bit to not die, every other tank can do this. Dark Mind should be removed as it has no use against attacks that aren't magical, and weaving it along with Oblation and TBN is a pain. Every other tank does just fine against most big hits if they just use their 30% and their personal mitigation ( PLD , GNB ) , while Warrior can do the later but with Thrill, but it has nowhere near the amount of oGCDs DRK has.

->Dark Missionary and Heart of light are the same. Make them slightly different, Dark Missionary could heal over time for 100 potency, while Heart of light could heal whenever you deal damage.

->Abyssal Drain and Carve and Spit should be lowered to 30 seconds cooldown for a couple of reasons. The job is very boring when its not bursting ( every 1 min, and every 2 mins ), so having to use either one of them every 30 secs would make it more interesting. In dungeons this would mean you'd get to use abyssal drain more often per pack ( twice ). The damage should be cut in half to make up for it, however please buff Abyssal Drain's heal potency to 250, or make its area of effect larger ( 5 y -> 8 y ) so that it hits every mob pack easier.

[Derio]

The 10% mitigation from oblation should just be give to Dark Mind. Oblation needs to be either a 10% shield or some kind of sustain.

In terms of dungeon balance. DRK will be in the bottom unless paired with SGE simply due to the healer having to do more for DRK than the other tanks.

Honestly they could remove the damage component on Abyssal Drain, give it 2 charges on a 60s cooldown, increase the heal potency, and put some of that potency on flood.

[Marxam]

The problems at least for me in the current state of the job are these:

-> When mitigating you have too many buttons to press for little gain ( ex: Dark Mind , Oblation ). While Dark Mind is good against magic damage and it has a low cooldown of 60 seconds, Oblation adds only a 10% while sharing the same cooldown. It makes absolutely no sense for both of these abilities to remain on a job that is already double weaving during its burst for roughly 8 GCDs straight. If I were to fix this I'd make Oblation grant 20% damage reduction and a regeneration effect for 150 potency for 12 seconds, with its duration also increased by 2 seconds due to the way healing ticks work. The heal over time is kind of necessary because the job has no healing in its kit and sometimes you'd wish you could heal yourself a little bit to not die, every other tank can do this. Dark Mind should be removed as it has no use against attacks that aren't magical, and weaving it along with Oblation and TBN is a pain. Every other tank does just fine against most big hits if they just use their 30% and their personal mitigation ( PLD , GNB ) , while Warrior can do the later but with Thrill, but it has nowhere near the amount of oGCDs DRK has.

->Dark Missionary and Heart of light are the same. Make them slightly different, Dark Missionary could heal over time for 100 potency, while Heart of light could heal whenever you deal damage.

I think that is my main issue with DRK atm. It's that they kept the double weave of 4.0 DA spam but removed the utility and flexibility of the job. DRK is even more braindead than most ppl think. Just because it has a lot of buttons doesn't make it hard. They are all sync'd to two mins and pressing an ogcd on cd is not hard (with the exception of some skills you save for 2 mins). A lot of this job comes off as redundant If shadowbringer was 120 secs, one use, and 1200 potency it would achieve the same effect it currently has in-game because you never press these two buttons outside of bursts or less than 5% and even then you can just spam EoS. Oblation being a 10% mit on 60 secs is pretty meh when you consider reprisal is identical, but an aoe. If Oblation was 10% HP, then I would consider DRK op, especially when paired with TBN on top of that but as it stands it's only "good" for its dmg. A flat mit shield is nice but let's not ignore the fact that SCH exists in the game.

Honestly makes me think how things would be if WAR and DRK dealt the same dmg. People also forget that WAR has SiO which literally lines up with every major raid wide and in the current tier raidwides are far more deadly than tankbusters which always have the option to invuln some of them but raidwides always need to be mitigated, healed and reprisal.

However, its as you said, I'm sure most players who actually main tank agree that giving a ogcd heavy tank more ogcds is difficult, especially on controller. I just barely manage on PS5 and even then I clip gcds if I have to target anyone other than the OT.

->Abyssal Drain and Carve and Spit should be lowered to 30 seconds cooldown for a couple of reasons. The job is very boring when its not bursting ( every 1 min, and every 2 mins ), so having to use either one of them every 30 secs would make it more interesting. In dungeons this would mean you'd get to use abyssal drain more often per pack ( twice ). The damage should be cut in half to make up for it, however please buff Abyssal Drain's heal potency to 250, or make its area of effect larger ( 5 y -> 8 y ) so that it hits every mob pack easier.

I have a feeling in 7.0 they will merge those two buttons and give it the expiacion effect of 100% dmg to first target and drop off for the rest. I'm also predicting the same with WAR upheaval upgrading to orogeny. If not, I think they should change EoS animation to C&S and keep AD a one min heal button similar to WAR's equilibrium.

[Archwizard]

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I disagree highly with giving DRK any kind of HoT effects it can put on others. Not because it doesn't need sustain -- I assure you, it absolutely does -- but because that's not the way the job should receive said sustain.
We are, after all, in a Final Fantasy game. Being able to put healing effects on your allies is the domain of White Magic and Holy Knights/Paladins; Dark Knights sustain themselves selfishly, with Blood equipment and Drain magic.
Not to mention that giving a cure potency to Oblation is just... turning it into Aurora. With extra mitigation, so Aurora+. Given that DRK and GNB already occupy parallel positions as "higher damage, lower survival" tanks, cloning Aurora is just begging for homogeny.

Instead, I propose DRK take a step backward and return to using direct "heal for damage dealt" effects. Take the 300p cure off Souleater and the 200p/target off Abyssal Drain, and just make them heal based on damage dealt like they did in HW/SB.
Not only is this significantly more powerful for a tank since we don't have the cure potency bonuses healers receive, but it would give a slight differentiation between DRK and WAR in terms of "life draining" discussions; WAR heals for a fixed amount whenever it swings encouraging you to be reckless, DRK only heals for what it drains with specific attacks encouraging you to be methodical.
You can take this a step further as well with Dark Missionary and Heart of Light: HoL becomes an AoE Aurora (which GNB can then stack with actual Aurora), Dark Missionary becomes an AoE Bloodbath (which DRK can then use with its heavy burst mechanics).

Additionally, I further propose that AD be swapped with Flood of Darkness, becoming our new AoE MP spender beside Edge. Given that we don't have access to TBN until level 70, this would at the very least level out our sustain for content up through Stormblood, so that we don't feel like a stripped-down melee who happens to have Shadow Wall and Rampart. Essentially it gives AD a charge system based on our MP, so we can hold some in reserve for when we actually need healing -- or risk it all for raw damage, which is extremely fitting for a Dark Knight. This would also mean having the option of Dark Arts contributing to our survivability, like the bonuses to other on-demands after level 82.
As I've said before, we don't need Flood to be the "Dark Wave" attack now that we have Shadowbringer, nor is it "classic" since it was a replacement for Dark Passenger. In contrast, AD actually is a classic since DRK's inception in 14, not to mention one of our few callbacks to classic Final Fantasy Dark Knights having Drain magic, even being one of Fray's signature attacks during the questline.
Normally I would suggest just bringing back Dark Passenger in AD's place as "AoE C&S" or at least making Flood a Blind, but as Marxam noted, it seems likely we'll see Orogeny/Upheaval and AD/C&S get the Expiacion treatment, especially since DRK is nearly as button-bloated as PLD. C&S already has an animation that supports a cone, just add falloff damage and it's golden.

And speaking of button bloat... the way I see it, there are only two options with Oblation.
1) Dark Mind upgrades into Oblation at 82 (or 84), and Oblation gains an extra 10% boost to Magic resistance in addition to the flat 10% DR it already has. Now you have a Dark Mind you can put on other people, Oblation is potent enough to warrant the button, and you trim a button, though your overall mitigation does decrease slightly.
2) Oblation is just baked into TBN, like it should have always been. Either make it a mitigation that applies at the moment the barrier breaks, or reduce the potency of the barrier slightly but have the mitigation apply separately for the entire duration. Of course, this would be easier to balance if TBN had a cooldown more in line with other tanks, and leaves Dark Mind in the same position it was before, but you at least cut the button which is the vital aspect.

[Oizen]

We're a bit beyond that sort of identity now seeing that WAR is basically already doing that with Bloodwhetting.

[Archwizard]

We're a bit beyond that sort of identity now seeing that WAR is basically already doing that with Bloodwhetting.

I'm literally suggesting a tweak to how Souleater and Abyssal Drain -- two abilities that already heal as they attack -- calculate the healing they already do.

The only thing I've suggested adding beyond that is putting Bloodbath on DMis, which we've previously discussed, it and HoL are weaker than SiO and DV, and the two of them need a distinction from each other. If WAR doesn't claim an AoE Bloodbath buff, it's on the table for someone else to.

Besides, the difference in this case is that Bloodwhetting is exclusively used when you're about to need healing. Souleater and AD are -- much like PLD's spells -- part of the rotation, whether you need healing or not.
The whole "WAR already heals by attacking" thing hardly matters if the two do so by different methods and encourage different behaviors.

[Duskane]

they pretty much catered this tier to DRK in terms of mitigation to go "see it fine".