Damage "taxes" deserve serious reconsideration

[Housinginneed]

But you can miss every single positional and several GCDs and still deal significantly more dps as a melee job than a caster or ranged job playing perfectly and not missing anything. I have been waiting so long to have a reason to respond to you. I admire your tenacity and your posts are the highlight of my woefully inadequate days, never stop.

He won't, every single argument he posted, someone has posted a counter-argument including what you have already said, he simply ignores anything that doesn't align with his views and just repeats what he said before.
"melees hard bcz positionals and uptime" are his only 2 arguments and he won't stop.

There are often close up aoes. At last from feeling, are they more common, as distance aoe. So, meele have a disadvangte in this case. They have to do combos, to make the full power. Most caster have at last smaller or no combos (they have priority in most cases or 2 skill combos). It is more likely, that they are going down, when they have the aggro. Ranger can running away and doing at last some dmg agains the enemy, at the same time.

MELEES ARE GOING DOWN IF TANKS LOSE AGGRO, RANGED CAN RUNNING AWAY HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I laughed so fucking hard at this LOL.
He even brought in the "combos" this time hahahahaha, that thing where you have to press 1-2-3 in order? oh how difficult melees have it.

[FireMage]

FireMage relies on logical fallacies and doesn't comprehend facts.

Citation required

I cleared all ultimate including DSR.
Passed E8SP1 on week 1 and cleared on week 2.

Does that makes my opinion automatically valid and superior to yours?
No, it doesn't, I don't have more skill and knowledge, just a bit more time than others.
As you do too. Don't play that game, there's always someone better than you and the remaining knowledge to acquire is never ending.

You are "dismissed".

I see you missed the point, and also who started it, go back and actually read and see that I was merely turning around trash logic on the person trying to use it on me

Those are strong words my man.

They are also factual

[Seraphor]

Citation required

It was a factual statement, no citation required.

[george357]

so much drama and infighting over who has the best jobs going no where really fast.

[Rithy255]

Ranged tax = Should be Reduced, Casters such as BLM should be performing the same if not better as samurai.
Utility tax = Possible reduction, depending on the utility, Raise is a example of a "good enough utility" to reduce damage (People have suggested removing caster raise or giving blm raise, if you want not my Ideal but I don't wanna go down that path lol).
"Skill" tax = I find it hard to even believe this exists despite it being stated, I don't think this should really exist, maybe reward a skillful job with a small utility like how monk has? or just don't reward skill as its pretty subjective

I think the only good "tax" is utility and if we're talking most utility then no, the idea of taxing a job based on abilities or ranged advantage makes sense to a extent but considering fights are designed around melees more and more we should at least cut it down by a lot, Things such as raising is powerful so it should be "taxed" (or removed which again I'm against but people argued that it's not useful enough to tax, so removing it would make sense if you think rdm raise is useless). I'd understand if the utility on a job is generally stronger but it's usually a minor small effect on most dps, that really have no difference on the fight.

[Supersnow845]

Ranged tax = Should be Reduced, Casters such as BLM should be performing the same if not better as samurai.
Utility tax = Possible reduction, depending on the utility, Raise is a example of a "good enough utility" to reduce damage (People have suggested removing caster raise or giving blm raise, if you want not my Ideal but I don't wanna go down that path lol).
"Skill" tax = I find it hard to even believe this exists despite it being stated, I don't think this should really exist, maybe reward a skillful job with a small utility like how monk has? or just don't reward skill as its pretty subjective

I think the only good "tax" is utility and if we're talking most utility then no, the idea of taxing a job based on abilities or ranged advantage makes sense to a extent but considering fights are designed around melees more and more we should at least cut it down by a lot, Things such as raising is powerful so it should be "taxed" (or removed which again I'm against but people argued that it's not useful enough to tax, so removing it would make sense if you think rdm raise is useless). I'd understand if the utility on a job is generally stronger but it's usually a minor small effect on most dps, that really have no difference on the fight.

Even rezz as a “utility”, this tier especially has gone quite hard on body check mechanics which severely reduce rezz uses around the fights harder mechanics, combine that with the fact that rezz is inherently taxed by throwing off your rotation and costing a boatload of MP (at least affecting RDM)

With this tier making rezz harder to justify and it already costing the user I’d say rezz shouldn’t really be taxed, stuff that can actually be optimised around and has defined use that not every class has (curing waltz, improv, magic barrier, expedient come to mind) and don’t intrinsically cost the class to use, they should be what, if anything, is taxed utility wise

[Kansene]

I think the only good "tax" is utility and if we're talking most utility then no

Yeah, imo the only utility that should be taxed are buffs that increase the damage of fellow party members. As has been stated before, spending GCDs and/or resources on things like verraise already taxes DPS because it's time spent not damaging the boss. FF tunnelvisions raw damage so hard that anything that isn't damage just seems to be discarded as unimportant.

[Kalaam]

That's true, any utility that costs you GCDs or ressources that could have been used for damage shouldn't causes a potency decrease, since using it doesn't increase your damage and rarely keeps it neutral. Tax damage buffs, maybe a little bit powerful defensive ones that are oGCD or can turn a fight when push come to shove (like yeah, chain raising if it could legit save a fight semi-regularly would deserve a slight overall damage tax, but nowhere near what it has rn)

[Aikaal]

You are downplaying the older content to much. There is no way, that only a tank and healer can in synch dungeons doing the job of 8 people. It would only be possible for the last few % hp. The normal content can be hard enough to. Even the older content, when the player dont doing the mechanik
And a good example, where ranger had the advangte is the first boss in the Yohras raid (or something this way) from shb.
He is creating often, fast, close up aoe, who are easily to miss, and endanger esspecial meele. Than, he has his beams, who can forcing to go away from him. His enegry ball, who are doing the same. And esspeacil, the phase, where you have to run in a circle, because of falling energy sphere. He is a enemy, where meele can have very often drawbacks. Even caster can be lesser effectiv agains him, because of the many movement. Ranger have it as the best agains him. I know, that it is only one enemy. But, he is a prime example.

People are clearing Hyedalyn EX with 1 tank and 1 healer. This is old content that have no value anymore. This is content from Endwalker. Balance should be focused on current content. Even if you have to do UCoB synced. The fight is such a living joke compared to what it was in SB. Compared UCoB to DSR and you'll see how much friendlier DSR is to melees. I truly enjoyed Melee DPS in SB because it was challenging. There is no challenge anymore to optimize melee DPS.

[Aurora428]

I really think there should only be one goal here:

Make all jobs desirable enough to fill the fourth DPS slot on a week one savage enrage.

I think that should be core to a game that prides itself on playing "whatever you want"

I think a lot of people are very tired of the two melee requirement in high end content, especially when there isn't any mechanical reason to necessitate it anymore.

Most importantly, I don't think it's fun to swap jobs and instantly do massively less damage by default. I don't think it is enjoyable that half of the DPS jobs are relegated to a lesser position regardless of the player behind it.