Many Savage PFs are barring PLD and WAR, anyone know what's going on?

[Lieri]

I have to say WAR dps is just not there atm. I played flawlessly in P7s granted Im still equipping 4 pentameld crafted mostly due to luck and Ive had 3 enrages with 0.1-0.2% so far. Yes it was with PF and yes at least one people died along the way but if I just do a bit more dmg we would have had those.

Switching to other tank is not an option, I like WAR and I dont want this game to be like WoW where you are forced to switch jobs to clear contents. Its not fun

This tier has been a mess. I can just wait till everyone gets better equipments but its frustrating. Started to think I might actually have to join a static. I agree with the notion that if you are a WAR you automatically depend on your dps to do excellent damage at least for 7 and 8 currently.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

While WAR could still use some DPS buffs, it's hardly the thing at fault if your group can't meet P7S's DPS check, especially by week 3.

[Undeadfire]

Can say the same for Week 2, easily done it week 1.

[Oizen]

I have to say WAR dps is just not there atm. I played flawlessly in P7s granted Im still equipping 4 pentameld crafted mostly due to luck and Ive had 3 enrages with 0.1-0.2% so far. Yes it was with PF and yes at least one people died along the way but if I just do a bit more dmg we would have had those.

Switching to other tank is not an option, I like WAR and I dont want this game to be like WoW where you are forced to switch jobs to clear contents. Its not fun

This tier has been a mess. I can just wait till everyone gets better equipments but its frustrating. Started to think I might actually have to join a static. I agree with the notion that if you are a WAR you automatically depend on your dps to do excellent damage at least for 7 and 8 currently.

Think this has more to do with PF than your choice of tank. PF players are legitimately awful at their jobs, especially the DPS ones. You'll get a little extra damage going over to a meta job, but its far more likely that its the result of 1 or 2 players being dead weight.

A sad reality of a game that wants to have hardcore/competitive damage checks, yet gives you no way to measure your own output or others, then the developer gets mad and screeches at you if you try anything third party to resolve this glaring flaw in game design.

Further WAR buffs would help a bit, but at the end of the day Tank damage just isn't as relevant as proper DPS performance.

[Lieri]

Think this has more to do with PF than your choice of tank. PF players are legitimately awful at their jobs, especially the DPS ones. You'll get a little extra damage going over to a meta job, but its far more likely that its the result of 1 or 2 players being dead weight.

A sad reality of a game that wants to have hardcore/competitive damage checks, yet gives you no way to measure your own output or others, then the developer gets mad and screeches at you if you try anything third party to resolve this glaring flaw in game design.

Further WAR buffs would help a bit, but at the end of the day Tank damage just isn't as relevant as proper DPS performance.

I can confirm it was a collective mistake. I managed to clear when the boss did it's enrage animation, I thought we were goners honestly.
I was very curious how did that happen, we had 2 deaths (tank+melee) but we did 2 melee LBs (LB 3 + LB 2) so I don't think it was supposed to be that crazy.
Then I browsed Reddit and found threads where people stated they cleared with multiple deaths in week 1/2, with proofs as well. I wasted so many hours this week. Sigh...

[Oizen]

I can confirm it was a collective mistake. I managed to clear when the boss did it's enrage animation, I thought we were goners honestly.
I was very curious how did that happen, we had 2 deaths (tank+melee) but we did 2 melee LBs (LB 3 + LB 2) so I don't think it was supposed to be that crazy.
Then I browsed Reddit and found threads where people stated they cleared with multiple deaths in week 1/2, with proofs as well. I wasted so many hours this week. Sigh...

Most pfs Ive done are only able to dish out enough damage for last second clears. The dps check is pretty brutal compared to 5 and 6

[Marxam]

Think this has more to do with PF than your choice of tank. PF players are legitimately awful at their jobs, especially the DPS ones. You'll get a little extra damage going over to a meta job, but its far more likely that its the result of 1 or 2 players being dead weight.

A sad reality of a game that wants to have hardcore/competitive damage checks, yet gives you no way to measure your own output or others, then the developer gets mad and screeches at you if you try anything third party to resolve this glaring flaw in game design.

Further WAR buffs would help a bit, but at the end of the day Tank damage just isn't as relevant as proper DPS performance.

Sadly that is the truest fact in PF. Which is also why I laugh at ppl who post barse parties in PF. The irony is that WAR used to be like DRK where it had very high burst with low down time. Berserk, when it was atk power made up a majority of your dmg since you swapped to Deliverance for that for a further 5% dmg increase. Though it was on the 90 sec and not tied to 120 sec.

The problem is that for WAR to capitalize on these short burst windows it's gcds need to hit much harder when in those windows to compensate for the lack of ogcds. PR/IC needs a good 50 more potency to see it be on par with DRK or even GNB. Buffing the other gcds is okay but its not gonna solve the issue of burst windows when you only have 7-8 gcds to hit in that small time frame. Compare that to DRK which can double weave "fell cleaves" between its gcds. I'm not gonna be surprised if IR is put to 120 secs but also have much higher dmg in the future. It technically used to be 120 secs when it was tied to Unchained in 4.0.

Personally I would like to see the return of attack power increase but a potency increase to all gcds while in IR would simulate the power Berserk once had and help in those burst windows while still retaining the low ogcd feel of WAR and not make it a copy of DRK's ogcd spam. I also like how WAR is gcd focused and it really gives impact to its hits like PR, compared to DRK's shadowbringers which feels like a wet fart despite it being its hardest hitting move.

[Lyth]

I think that a lot of this just comes down to fight design. If you de-emphasize positioning due to bosses that fill most of the arena, position themselves, or are just wall bosses, then tanking largely gets reduced to being an underpowered melee dps. So when you hit a dps check as a tank you may feel pressured to try to find ways of picking up that slack. However, a lot of it is unfortunately outside of your control, and the biggest contribution that you can make is to avoid killing more important members of your team with unforced errors.

For the offensive value that tanks bring, the variations between them are so minor that I'm surprised that anyone would bother to lock spots, and I haven't personally seen that myself. If you're frustrated by dps checks on tank in pf, honestly just try swapping to DPS for a tier. It's seriously a breath of fresh air and you'll actually feel like you have carry potential. And you'll always be the top preference for uptime spots.

[Mithron]

For the offensive value that tanks bring, the variations between them are so minor that I'm surprised that anyone would bother to lock spots, and I haven't personally seen that myself. If you're frustrated by dps checks on tank in pf, honestly just try swapping to DPS for a tier. It's seriously a breath of fresh air and you'll actually feel like you have carry potential. And you'll always be the top preference for uptime spots.

Less than 10 total PLDs/WARs cleared P8s week 1 worldwide. There were hundreds of DRKs and GNBs. One of the famous streamers for FF14 couldn't clear it on WAR,, switched to GNB where his party had some deaths and damage downs, and they cleared it simply because of the GNB damage difference from WAR. It was a very significant problem. There shouldn't be damage gap difference in rDPS between roles greater than 1%, and back then it was higher than nearly 5% if I'm not mistaken. That is significant enough to prevent clears in many cases, even when played optimally.

[Lyth]

There's roughly about 200 dps between all the tanks, and if you look at the statistics, PLD is now marginally outperforming DRK on most of the fights following the 6.21 buffs. This is in comparison to DPS jobs that are each individually doing more than 150% of your raid contribution and vary by nearly 1000 dps in some cases.

You should try your best. But the unfortunate truth is that SE has gone to great lengths over the past few expansions to de-emphasize the value of good tanks, and you will not make or break any of these checks outside of grossly underperforming.