Endwalker MSQ gripe - *early spoilers*

[Iyrnthota]

Indeed. We seek out and slaughter sentient beings who are minding their own business because someone at our military organization put them on a hunt list, a long list with dozens of entries that simply command: "Kill N of X." Not capture. Not bring to justice. Kill.
And why do we do it? For currency and promotions.

Whatever, though. It's just a game, and that's just a trope in this kind of game.

Ludonarrative dissonance I think is the term. Where there's a disconnect between the gameplay and the story.

Like how in a lot of shooter games, if you get shot in a cutscene, that's pretty bad. If you get shot during gameplay, you just wait a few seconds for the bullet wounds to heal.

Some games deal with it better than others, and some people deal with it differently to others, but there's almost always going to be a little bit of a disconnect.

[Raoabolic]

Pretty sure Wol doesnt operate on a One Race philosophy or go around kidnapping people he considers inferior to perform experiments on them so yeah.
I am better than my enemy thank youuuuuu <3

Join the Eorezian alliance! Or else...

[Midareyukki]

Join the Eorezian alliance! Or else...

"What are you gonna do, cut my arm off or something?"

[Kes13a]

"What are you gonna do, cut my arm off or something?"

technically... if that was done you would only be able to wield half your weapons... so... um.. sure...viable option

[Raoabolic]

"What are you gonna do, cut my arm off or something?"

Joke's on you, we were too slow (lol, sorry brobuan. Plot armor for me, not for thee~) so we just kicked ally mcmingo's doors down and put a bull in power that answers to the allance. The WoL is just the tool, the alliance is the ones wielding it. Enjoy the story~!

[Midareyukki]

technically... if that was done you would only be able to wield half your weapons... so... um.. sure...viable option

I only need one! -whips out a giant colouring book- Demi-Bahamut, go!

Joke's on you, we were too slow (lol, sorry brobuan. Plot armor for me, not for thee~) so we just kicked ally mcmingo's doors down and put a bull in power that answers to the allance. The WoL is just the tool, the alliance is the ones wielding it. Enjoy the story~!

I'm pretty sure this is addressed in the DRK quests. We're aware we're basically everyone's lackey and keep accepting dumb fetch quests, but we do it because it's cool to help the little people from time to time after half an hour of murdering our way through Castri. Say what you will about our lack of agency, at least we like it and haven't died yet. What's Garlemald's excuse?

[Boblawblah]

I've always found the "WE'RE the bad guy actually" argument lacking. Sure, if we had any sort of agency, that might have some merit, but we don't, and the only way to win that argument is to simply not play the game. It just doesn't work. Now if the WoL could choose to resolve scenarios/quests in different ways, then that might be a meaningful discussion, but we don't.

[Raoabolic]

I'm pretty sure this is addressed in the DRK quests. We're aware we're basically everyone's lackey and keep accepting dumb fetch quests, but we do it because it's cool to help the little people from time to time after half an hour of murdering our way through Castri. Say what you will about our lack of agency, at least we like it and haven't died yet. What's Garlemald's excuse?

Who needs critical thought when those in power tell you who the bad guy is! Besides, your entire argument is "Well, they should have been stronger!". That's not the mindset of someone wanting to help others, that's the mindset of a sociopath, lmao.

[Midareyukki]

Who needs critical thought when those in power tell you who the bad guy is! Besides, your entire argument is "Well, they should have been stronger!". That's not the mindset of someone wanting to help others, that's the mindset of a sociopath, lmao.

...well... aren't we sociopaths? Have you not seen the crazy flips we do in-game while killing people?? Why are we so jumpy that stuff's being shot at, Machinists? And what's up with all the flourish after stabbing people, Red Mages?

And honestly, the methods are similar and that in itself is a problem. But two things.
1 - There is a difference between the methods employed and morality. We kill, yes, but we don't go around torturing people. Garleans do. We kill because we're fighting for freedom. Garleans have secured their freedom in Ilsabard, their idea was to go around murdering and torturing their neighbours and their neighbours' neighbours. At least we're trying to liberate the people of the places we go to, and we don't go on a murder spree just because they're Garleans. Otherwise Jullus wouldn't be breathing on his second cutscene.
2 - We actually resort to diplomacy. We try to do dialogue first. Which is far more than what Garleans ever attempted. Garlean diplomacy is "Bigger Army Diplomacy". Look at Bozja; they didn't even try to coexist, they just went at eachother's throats because "MUH LANDMASS"

...except when we're massively incompetent at it. I'm still salty about the war table scene with Varis. Varis's claims to shut down the other nations were so flimsy, and he purposely ignored the development on the past two expansions specifically to remain on a moral highground while the others just looked down with guilt in their eyes.

[RukoBoshi]

...except when we're massively incompetent at it. I'm still salty about the war table scene with Varis. Varis's claims to shut down the other nations were so flimsy, and he purposely ignored the development on the past two expansions specifically to remain on a moral highground while the others just looked down with guilt in their eyes.

To be fair, Varis is a warmonger, he doesn't care about our reasoning or any reasoning for that matter. There's only one way to achieve his idiotic goal, and it is to conquer everyone no matter what.
There's nothing the alliance leaders could have actually said that would make him rethink his goals.

But i do agree that the reaction of the leaders was underwhelming.