Damage "taxes" deserve serious reconsideration

[Cithaerias_pyropina]

It's frustrating when you can play a melee job incredibly poorly and deal significantly more damage than Red Mage, Bard, MCH and Black Mage who all have to actually think, play optimally and like Renathras said burn every tool in their kits to keep casting uptime to come even close to having a scrap of damage the underperforming melee player can do.

[ZiraZ]

I honestly can't wait for 7.0.
Once every caster gets instant casts across the board, and every melee gets 25 yard range attacks with no positionals, addle, and a res we can all finally become the equals and do the exact same dps and then fflogs will shutdown.
And yeah, of course melee needs range attacks, we wouldn't want some jobs to be more equal than others once everyone does the same dmg.

[Keichi]

I honestly can't wait for 7.0.
Once every caster gets instant casts across the board, and every melee gets 25 yard range attacks with no positionals, addle, and a res we can all finally become the equals and do the exact same dps and then fflogs will shutdown.
And yeah, of course melee needs range attacks, we wouldn't want some jobs to be more equal than others once everyone does the same dmg.

Will not happen. The people would complain about the 0,000000000001% difference^^.

To be serious. How do you guys think, should the dmg be?
Even under meeles are difference (monk is actually number 1, in shb last place, samu is lower as the monk). Should really every class be able to do the exact same dmg, no matter wich class it is? Arent you even complain, that it is bad, that every class becomes the same?

I stay by my opinion, that rangers have to do the lowest dmg and meele the most damage. The supporter have to do lower dmg, as the pure dps classes.
The only point, where i agree is, that the cap could be closer (instant of 10% maybe 5 % to the top, the middle field around 3%).
But, the question is, wich numbers they would take.

Mch make the biggest dmg of the ranger, when he is alone. The other have higher numbers, the more and stronger partner they have. It is hard to balancing, when differently people value differently conditions for it.

[CKNovel]

I stay by my opinion, that rangers have to do the lowest dmg and meele the most damage.

Also props for that "MCH makes the biggest damage when he is alone" when outside POTD&HOH, all content are done with a team.
You really need impressive mental gymnastic to think like that.

[SaberMaxwell]

I honestly can't wait for 7.0.
Once every caster gets instant casts across the board, and every melee gets 25 yard range attacks with no positionals, addle, and a res we can all finally become the equals and do the exact same dps and then fflogs will shutdown.
And yeah, of course melee needs range attacks, we wouldn't want some jobs to be more equal than others once everyone does the same dmg.

Nah at this rate 7.0 will be "play melee or don't bother applying for this group, your favorite job's damage is nowhere near worth bringing. Go ahead and enjoy it in casual content but anyone who likes it and wants to bring it into anything beyond extreme can keep dreaming."

[Keichi]

Also props for that "MCH makes the biggest damage when he is alone" when outside POTD&HOH, all content are done with a team.
You really need impressive mental gymnastic to think like that.

Nice picture, that is fitting.^^

Im a solo Player, so, i watch mostly for solo stuff (even in group work).

And you guys dont answered my question:
How close exatly are you thinking, should the caps be?

I allready sayed my part. All that you guys sayed, that it has to be the same. But exactly the same isnt possible (and would it be, than the people would complain, that all is the same). Instant of only complaining, could you guys mentioned an area, in wich gap the classes should be. 1%? 0.000001%? 3-5% difference?
There have to be a cap, because, pure dps would lose there places, would support dps have the exact same numbers, or higher (see mch). With the exaption, that it sucks to have multiple times the same supporter, because the buffs can canceling each other (at last by nin and to a certain point by the drg).

[Dzian]

I stay by my opinion, that rangers have to do the lowest dmg and meele the most damage. The supporter have to do lower dmg, as the pure dps classes.

What support? Ranged classes offer no support they are just as much pure dps as dps classes. Even monk has more support than ranged classes does?

Ranged classes traditionally hit harder than melee but are much more fragile... all history and old wars were the archers at the back could devastate enemy infantry but they wore like no armor at all..

Infantry wore armor to take a few whits and got right into the thick of it.... the problem in xiv is the way damage is so scripted predictable and unavoidable forcing ranged classes to have melee levels of hp and armor. Compounded with the additional problem that utility, support, crowd control, resource management all basically don't exist..

At this point under the games current design every dps should quite literally do the exact same dps.. it's stupid.

[CKNovel]

There is one problem about making all DPS doing the same rDPS (more or less):
It's the ego problem.

Despite knowing they're more tanking, more mobile and their gameplay being the same as a physical ranged, some will complain because of "muh uptime", "muh positionals".
Any Melee DPS won't lose more than 10 GCDs even if they play extremely safe but the current gap makes looks like they have to AFK for a whole minute.

Yoshida pointed this "Some jobs who were doing enough damage will feel it as unfair".
Guys, we have to walk so that melee DPS can run while smiling. It wouldn't be fair if we could both run.

[Liam_Harper]

There is one problem about making all DPS doing the same rDPS (more or less):
It's the ego problem.

Despite knowing they're more tanking, more mobile and their gameplay being the same as a physical ranged, some will complain because of "muh uptime", "muh positionals".
Any Melee DPS won't lose more than 10 GCDs even if they play extremely safe but the current gap makes looks like they have to AFK for a whole minute.

Let them complain. Seriously. Just let it happen.

Developers need to stop being terrified of complaints from casual players and learn to differentiate between legitimate feedback on balance issues and empty whining. If someone is complaining about melee positionals, they can pick up a phys ranged. In most cases they'll keep playing their melee, be fine with it and it's just hollow grumbling over having to put in effort.

They also need to drop this ridiculous idea that every job needs equal participation rate. Even if some jobs have small utility or ease of play advantages over others, players will still play their favorite. When phys ranged used to do as much as casters or melee, some people still played casters and melee because they liked the gameplay of their job of choice. If rdps is balanced, you pick a job for gameplay.
It also doesn't matter if, for example, NIN had 5000 happy players and DNC had 15000 happy players. That's fine, there's no problem here. That's 20k happy people. Trying to force it to be a 10k/10k split just results in a good portion of those players no longer being happy and doesn't increase the size of the playerbase, it simply redistributes the existing playerbase. It makes no sense to destroy jobs for no gain.

[Keichi]

What support?

Machinist:
- can create a barrier to reduce dmg

Barde:
- has 1 song to do dmg and raise the dmg of allies
- has 1 song to disspell negativ effect or give barrier agains negative effect.
- has 1 song to increase direct hit chance for the party
- has a additionally skill to increase direct hit rate for yourself and allies
- has a song to create barrier for yourself and allies
- has a skill to increase heal effects
- than the 90er skill, who gives again dmg buff

Dancer:
- has dance partner, to increase dmg of one allie
- has a dance to increase dmg for all allies
- has a healing skill for yourself and the party
- has a skill to increase your defence and the defence of your party
- has a skill to increase yours and your dance partners crit and direct
- you can create a barrier for yourself and the party
- theoretically, there is even a heal of time skill. but, it is probally extrem rare, that you are using it

SMN:
- has his shining skill to increase the dmg of your party
- can use raise, in the case, rthat healers are down or arent enough

RMG:
- has a skill to increase dmg of the party
- can use raise, in the case, rthat healers are down or arent enough
- can create a barrier for the party

Nin:
- has Mug, to graise the dmg of your party

Monk:
- has brotherhood, to increase dmg of your party

Reaper:
. has his barrier to gibe your allies a lesser healing effect

Dragoon:
- has eye of the dragon, to increase dmg of one ally (but it is hard to use, because, you have to klick on the partner, before you use this skill)
- you has the 52er skill to increase crit for the party

All that are support skills. And, like you see, are dancer and Barde have many of them. So, it is fair, that they make lesser dmg as the others.
The same with SMN and RDM, who have a little support. Instant of the blm, who has nothing.