Endwalker MSQ gripe - *early spoilers*

[Midareyukki]

Funny how that all happened AFTER the mute WoL started killing off their generals one by one. I can get behind a good revenge plot but don't go pretending you are better than your enemy while doing the exact same thing. Also, pretty beta for a "gigachad" to be unable to make their own decisions, lol.

At least we wear armour, what's their excuse? "Third eye"? Try telling that to an Au Ra.

And I mean...



Who needs decisions when you're a walking nuke? Decisions are for Ceruleum users, alphas just zerg it.

[Darthgummibear]

In retrospect, my biggest gripe about the MSQ this time around is them doing away with pretty much every major lore element since the start of the game in the most unceremonious way possible. Hydalen, Zodiark, Garlemald(and balsar), the ancients/ascians, even revealing the twelve was completely anti-climatic.

I'm not even a lore junkie and they way they went about things bugs me.

[Rhaggnos]

In retrospect, my biggest gripe about the MSQ this time around is them doing away with pretty much every major lore element since the start of the game in the most unceremonious way possible. Hydalen, Zodiark, Garlemald(and balsar), the ancients/ascians, even revealing the twelve was completely anti-climatic.

I'm not even a lore junkie and they way they went about things bugs me.

I'm still going through it, but at this point it already feels like homework to get to endgame tbh.

Kinda sad considering the end of ShB was quite enjoyable.

[CKNovel]

These RPG people are lucky I don't get a say in how the MC behaves, I'd go full Vegeta / Ainz Ooal Gown on their ass.

Diplomacy

No seriously if every MC would just annihilate every thing that gets in the way with pure force, that would be boring.
While you're given the tools to complete the MSQ, the WoL isn't a boring godlike being that can solve everything with infinite speed and strength.
And it's not a being that wants to rule by force.

Back in Stormblood, anyone correct me if I'm wrong, an interview revealed the WoL had the strength of 100 man.
In short, the WoL is literally closer to Guts than to Vegeta/AOG.

To quote a literal dialogue from the game:
"The conquest is the easy part. The true challenge begins once the dust has settled."

[Anura]

Funny how that all happened AFTER the mute WoL started killing off their generals one by one. I can get behind a good revenge plot but don't go pretending you are better than your enemy while doing the exact same thing. Also, pretty beta for a "gigachad" to be unable to make their own decisions, lol.

And what is it that the WoL does that makes them equal, hmm? I don't remember invading lands and acting righteous after killing natives. Also: that's a logical fallacy, so, just for the amusing factor, try to answer my question without resorting to it again.

[Thaciscokidd]

And what is it that the WoL does that makes them equal, hmm? I don't remember invading lands and acting righteous after killing natives. Also: that's a logical fallacy, so, just for the amusing factor, try to answer my question without resorting to it again.

We aren't as clean as we think we are. The one thing that people tend to forget about the Gigas' slave rebellion we put down in the Copperbell mines, the subjugation of the Kolbolds and Sahagin after Limsa broke there treaties, and kinda sorta the Ishgardian heretics.

That's one thing that I'll always wished that we got to experience is how the common Garlean viewed the WoL before the fall of Garlemald. A people that was beat down and pushed back by magic users before in the past having it happen again.

[Jojoya]

Typical Jojoya, coming into a thread for the first time only to make a personal attack and offer nothing of substance to the debate. Seriously, nothing OP said in any way denotes how he deals with life issues it's a video game.

How we react to situations presented in entertainment can be influenced by personal experience.

It honestly wasn't an attempt to attack the OP. It was curiosity about whether maybe the OP grew up in an abusive environment where the final say in a dispute was usually a fist or a belt or some other act of violence, or some similar environment where violence was the go to. Those who grow up in such environments frequently use the same methods they were subjected to or witnessed frequently when trying to solve disputes in their own life. They don't need condemnation; they need counseling to help them see that violence is not the answer in a non-violent dispute.

With respect to the story itself, there had been no violence between the Alliance aid mission and the survivors at Tertium so there was no reason to resort to violence while trying to establish the Alliance truly was present to offer aid. Placing the collars around Alphinaud and Alisaie's necks might have been a threat of violence but it was not an act of violence. They didn't not suffer any harm.

Why would knocking the Garleans on their butts be the correct response in that case? All it would accomplish would get those shock collars activated, putting Alphinaud and Alisaie in extreme pain. We already know what those collars are capable of doing from things like the GNB job quests.

A fist would have been very much the wrong response in that situation - unless the WoL didn't give a damn about Alphinaud or Alisaie or the aid mission, of course. So why think it would be a better response to write into the story?

[Anura]

We aren't as clean as we think we are. The one thing that people tend to forget about the Gigas' slave rebellion we put down in the Copperbell mines, the subjugation of the Kolbolds and Sahagin after Limsa broke there treaties, and kinda sorta the Ishgardian heretics.

That's one thing that I'll always wished that we got to experience is how the common Garlean viewed the WoL before the fall of Garlemald. A people that was beat down and pushed back by magic users before in the past having it happen again.

These things are forgotten because they are mostly irrelevant. We, actual humans, have a very, VERY bloody history, so I'll use some examples to give perspective: europeans enslaved a lot of people, but what if those people were actually immortal, gigantic golems. What if they ended up being imprisoned for god knows how long and then released at people TODAY, people that knew nothing about them, since history has been mostly erased or reviewed. Those golems cannot be reasoned with, what would you do? Sic 'em at the descendants of the slavers, people that had nothing to do with it, people who don't even condone slavery anymore? It's not pleasant, but it's how you deal with rabid dogs.

The kobolds have a good reason to be mad as fuck, not so much the sahagin, but OUR specific problems with them comes from them summoning aether starved aberrations and, again, throwing them at people. Luckily the issue seems to be resolved now and that problem CAN be pointed at Merlwyb/Limsa, not so much at us. We've been befriending beast tribes since the beginning. That's why Ramuh trusted us to begin with.

Now, the garleans have no legs to stand on. None whatsoever. They've been invading countless lands, killing natives or treating them like complete trash or second class citizens at BEST, with none but a few exceptions. Every installation we've invaded and destroyed is a result of their campaign and imperialism. In fact, we did not even went after them to simply crush their army, install a puppet government and stop the process. It was, from the beginning, to help, even after all the mess they've done. If you want to see how people deal with enemy countries in a war, look no further than the Battle of Berlin. Many atrocities were committed there, of course, and that's another matter, but dealing with a country to end a war and future invasions is exactly what happens and it's not a war crime, it's called removing the source of the problem.

[Silverbane]

We aren't as clean as we think we are.

Indeed. We seek out and slaughter sentient beings who are minding their own business because someone at our military organization put them on a hunt list, a long list with dozens of entries that simply command: "Kill N of X." Not capture. Not bring to justice. Kill.
And why do we do it? For currency and promotions.

Whatever, though. It's just a game, and that's just a trope in this kind of game.

[Thaciscokidd]

These things are forgotten because there are mostly irrelevant. We, actual humans, have a very, VERY bloody history, so I'll use some examples to give perspective: europeans enslaved a lot of people, but what if those people were actually immortal, gigantic golems. What if they ended up being imprisoned for god knows how long and then released at people TODAY, people that knew nothing about them, since history has been mostly erased or reviewed. Those golems cannot be reasoned with, what would you do? Sic 'em at the descendants of the slavers, people that had nothing to do with it, people who don't even condone slavery anymore? It's not pleasant, but it's how you deal with rabid dogs.

It might be irrelevant to the victors since history is written by them but that doesn't take anything away from the wronged. The gigas' do have intelligence just like any other beast tribe does. We are just ordered to go wipe out there uprising twice without no hint of diplomacy. Just because people might have forgotten about the wrongs that happen to a people doesn't just make that wrong go away. They were enslaved and left entombed due to them rising up against there slave masters. While it might be irrelevant to the WoL and Uldah, its not irrelevant to them.

The kobolds have a good reason to be mad as fuck, not so much the sahagin, but OUR specific problems with them comes from them summoning aether starved aberrations and, again, throwing them at people. Luckily the issue seems to be resolved now and that problem CAN be pointed at Merlwyb/Limsa, not so much at us. We've been befriending beast tribes since the beginning. That's why Ramuh trusted us to begin with.

True about the Kolbolds but the Sahagin do have a super valid claim. Limsa started to encroach on there spawning grounds and thats the most important thing to them. While I agree that we did befriend some of them but we didn't befriend them all. Ramuh, like most primals, only cares about there associated tribe. We could have massacred the ixal and Ramuh would have seen that as a net positive.

Now, the garleans have no legs to stand on. None whatsoever. They've been invading countless lands, killing natives or treating them like complete trash or second rate citizens at BEST, with none but a few exceptions. Every installation we've invaded and destroyed is a result of their campaign and imperialism. In fact, we did not even went after them to simply crush their army, install a puppet government and stop the process. It was, from the beginning, to help, even after all the mess they've done. If you want to see how people deal with enemy countries in a war, look no further than the Battle of Berlin. Many atrocities were committed there, of course, and that's another matter, but dealing with a country to end a war and future invasion is exactly what happens and it's not a war crime, it's called removing the source of the problem.

But they do have a leg to stand on. They were driven from there homeland by magic users before Emet brought up magitek. Why sit back and let the thing that drove you to near extinction sit idle til they have the chance to do it again. If we go by your standing should we even had helped the Ala Mhigans since they tried to invade Gridania just to expand there territory?

And if you want to go into Real life history it can be interpreted both ways. One sides Manifest Destiny is another side selfish land grab and removal from ancestral lands. One sides unprovoked invasion is the other sides search for suitable habitats for there people to flourish. We never got to experience the other side. One flip of a coin could have had the WoL be a hero of Galemald trying to defend our people from the savage magic users that nearly drove our people to extinction.